World government it is then.
Nothing stops countries creating laws and threatening action if you disobey. They could simply have a law which bans SAFENetwork, for example… or computers. Whether it is enforceable is another matter though.
I suspect some regimes will only allow a custom versions of the SAFENetwork client apps and/or custom plugins, which expose user actions and filter them. They may restrict access to the vault software too. They will combine this with laws to insist on using these with threats of jail time. However, it doesn’t stop people using it, but may certainly deter them.
It just depends how totalitarian the local regime is and how much risk the populous is prepared to take.
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Prohibitionism failed almost every-time and for everything. Propaganda could deter people in the short term; But in the long term the network (if it works as expected) will merge for its practical use-cases and functionalities. I think it’s not an if matter, it’s more when people will understand Safe on their own and not “trust” others’ opinions/explanations
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Really?
Because on top of my head I could think of at least a dozen subjects that has gotten a lot less free in either my country or on the internet since 2000.
And I’d say in each case the prohibitionism is working quite well.
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Don’t agree. I think that our society has achieved many good goals in these decades in both economics and tech though we made for sure also many mistakes.
We’re heading towards a single global infrastructure where people can move and interact freely. But in order to do this, we need laws to protect privacy and freedom. And to make these improvements we need people to change their attitude towards these fundamental rights. How we can make people start valorising them? Showing them what our tech is capable of, on both good and bad side.
If we want to find solutions for our future problems we need to start to look at the good that we got today.
Think at the way we communicate. We have the chance to go almost everywhere and interact with everyone thanks to the advancements in tech and infrastructures. What we have today is thus interconnection and cooperation.
People can share (not only cute cats pics lol) and give worldwide exposure to both serious issues (wars, corruption, threats) and great goals (donations, solidarity, building new projects). Tor, tails, pgp, securedrop etc… can help several citizens including whistleblowers and those living under dictatorship. Human beings can create great things when they connect to each other.
And where the law represents an obstacle to freedom, the tech creates new opportunities.
Of course on the other side corrupted institutions and dictators use the advancements in tech for repression and mass surveillance. But that’s part of the game. We’ll never have a “perfect” society but we can improve. And it’s our responsibility to create new tools/opportunities for a good future. And no, banning something is not the solution to a problem. Prohibitionism doesn’t work on the long term. People will always find a way to fool your banning-system. If you want to solve a problem, educate and regulate. Just my 2 cents
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You fundamentally don’t understand how the network works. You can’t restrict anything geographically, because that is the very foundation of how it keeps every user anonymous from each other.
The moment that you add any means of restriction, the whole point of this projects is gone. The point of this project is to make any censorship technically unfeasible.
From there to jump to the conclusion that it attempts a “world government” is not only quite a stretch, it is an absurd.
This is as world government as the electric grid.
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We’re kind of trailing of my main question here.
The focus of the question was on restrictions on what you can host, not what you can see.
Anyway…
I will argue instead that while progress has been made, some seem to be pursued more than others.
For example, I like the ability of my car being able to navigate through town.
What I don’t like is the need to have the car communicate back to the company as much information as it can.
You’re constantly being watched and listened in on by authorities.
Even in your own home.
That wasn’t the case 20 years ago.
The freedom to move is getting less as well.
Walls and fences are being put up in multiple nations.
Gated and walled communities have risen more and more in popularity.
Neighbourhood watch signs have become commonplace.
These are signs of increasing distrust and division.
And less freedom.
If you’re specifically talking about the safenet I will agree on those last two sentences.
In general however, privacy laws have been slowly evaporating in the US and with it in the other four Anglonations and EU as well.
And freedom is somewhat useless in a network when social media has centralized towards big censoring snoopers. The non-snooping social media are more empty than the chatrooms from 20 years ago.
I highly doubt a “change in attitude” is needed, when 20 years ago the attitude at least in my country was pro-privacy due to world war II and the cold war. I remember reading in my school history books that privacy and private communication in particular was given as one of the cornerstones of a democratic society. I don’t read that anywhere nowadays. So I conclude that the attitude has gone backwards and thus the first thing you must do is ask yourself is why has it gone backwards, before trying to convince people of something that has already been done and failed.
Compared to twenty years ago what’s been gained is chat and video via mobile and video via computers.
It’s not that much different, because there was not much left to change.
Perhaps you live in Asia where such things have changed dramatically and no doubt Africa will follow in the next twenty years, but the problem we are facing right now is the centralization in tech and infrastructures.
The cooperation creates a single giant hierarchy instead of many competing hierarchies.
Or it can help a world dictatorship where whistleblowers are safe nowhere when the internet including tor is being monitored. Again, the problem is centralization, especially the centralization of earnings. You can have all sorts of security measures, but when your opponent has a million times more money to spend, you will never be safe.
That side is growing as it becoming easier with the centralization of wealth.
Empty talk.
Alright. I’ll give you an example of a product.
Fireworks and guns.
Say you have one country, let’s say the US, where fireworks are banned but guns are legal
and have another country, say Germany where guns are banned and fireworks are legal.
Both are dangerous to use and thus both countries have regulations that they think is best.
But they are not the same.
If an American sells guns and a German sells fireworks and both their payment processor app crosses both countries, that should mean that both could be extradited to each other’s countries.
How would you solve this problem?
Should they both be legal?
Then you’re telling both countries to adhere to a universal law, despite the people having voted against it, which goes against democracy.
If enough people are against something, you’re going to see it banned.
If people have enough power to do so, you’re going to see it banned.
You will not be able to fool the banning system when that happens.
Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
Have you been ignoring things?
Are you a teenager?
Are you from some Asian country that has gotten more free over time?
Because I can make a list of all the things that have gotten more strict over the last 20 years in my country:
Alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, fireworks, age of sexual consent, dating, applying for a job,
painting your face black, assembly, traveling by sea and traveling by air.
on the internet:
Pornography, video hosting about politics (youtube), video hosting in general (youtube).
I can’t actually think of a thing that has gotten more free.
Oh right, gay marriage. Completely useless for me.
Anyway, in all of these examples I haven’t seen much resistance against this.
Either because the majority is in favor of it,
or people no longer have the money/power to stop it.
Both bother me a lot, but the last one in particular,
because it means that we’re heading towards a dystopian future where absolute power will fall into the hands of the few corrupting them absolutely.
And that usually ends up in death and tears.
So all the IP addresses are hidden from each other?
No it’s not.
Power plants pay taxes based on their geographic location.
It would be more similar to massive solar power plants floating in international waters.
Which countries’ taxes is an online shop on the safe network going to pay?
One user cannot find another users IP address.
Apps do not broadcast the IP address.
The user could be using a VPN
Only nodes within a section know the IP addresses or the other nodes in that section.
The section knows the IP address of a user using the section as entry point.
While the APP runs on the users PC, the IP address is not necessarily useful to determine location since it could be a local LAN address, or a VPN address even if the APP has access to the IP address.
If the APP is programmed to recover taxes then it has to ask the user what their location is.
What I said above shows that it is impossible to correctly determine location from any IP address. So like stores do today they use the delivery address, billing address or ask the user.
I only use VPNs because of our countries data collection laws and the online shops I use ask for location or use the addresses for delivery or billing.
Suppose I don’t run a online shop selling fireworks,
but instead run an online gambling site.
Which country am I paying taxes to?
Depends on what taxes you are talking of.
Obviously company tax is to the country where the company is registered in. And if company not registered then its not a company is it.
If not a company and ignoring the law then its liable to be in trouble when the authorities of the country of the person receiving the profits finds the person
If it is VAT (or similar) then it depends on the country where the company is registered in. Usually (for many countries) the VAT is charged for the country where the goods are being sent to.
- For UK VAT applies to UK residences and not charged if goods sent overseas (AFAIK)
- For China they will charge GST for Australian customers and remit the tax to Australia
- It depends on country and any agreements they have with other countries and/or states.
You are not asking good questions as the answer depends on
- country where company is registered in AND
- country the customer is in
- substitute State for country for company registration location if the USA
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you are thinking of safe network as a service! its not! its like the internet today but its safer as in nobody can stop you from posting something
if in the today internet you post on facebook something that is illegal facebook adhere to laws and takes down your post, you are not taking down the internet from the user.
safe network is the network the new internet,
in the analogy of today in safe network if you have a service you are the only one that needs to go and ask your country how you can receive payments from all over the world and pay the apropriate taxes for the selling. the buyer is not your deal, the buyer must report what he bought to the tax office and pay the apropriate taxes. if its illegal in his country the only thing you can do is have terms of service that you offer the service in the premise that the buyer doesnt break the law.
if you do something illegal from your country then the government office of online crime has to investigate and find you and you should be on a trial and there will be your punishment according to the laws. is it a fine? is it jail? is it that you are not allowed to get on the internet?
My point was that neither are governments, as it doesn’t govern anything. I think you don’t really understand what that word means and you are using liberally.
A commodity is a commodity, it doesn’t enact laws and it doesn’t tell people what to do with it, you just use it.
How you use it and in what you use it, it depends on you.
And in a similar fashion, it’s usage is indistinguishable for the power company. They can’t know if you are running a bitcoins farm or a factory or a marijuana plantation.
But as this network doesn’t have a central authority, no supernodes, topologically the national energy grid would be the wrong analogy, and a closer image would be a network of solar panels from each user’s homes. No utility company manages it, the network self-manages itself.
And yes, in short, the whole purpose of this network is to allow anonymous and secure communication networks, so essentially nobody knows who is who and where is where. After the first hop, the IP is dropped and a alternate routing mechanism is used where no IP is needed.
You can learn more about it here:
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You’re talking about progress but then telling we live into dystopian society?
• False, false and false.
• 20 years ago Internet was accessible just to few and our societies were not connected as today. And today we still got several independent developers and open source projects which protect privacy and freedom.
• False. Especially after Snowden’s revelations a global consciousness rose towards privacy. There were several debates all over the world and many things changed in both the US and EU legislations. Examples: 2015 ACLU v. Clapper, Congress then approved the the USA Freedom Act
The European Parliament approved in 2016 the GDPR which was enforced in 2018.
No it’s not. That means that the current web has done a great job at connecting people but it resulted having lots of vulnerabilities. Thus, businesses and institutions used the general lack of knowledge towards online privacy and freedom for malicious activities. But again, new inventions can both have great effects and bad consequences. that doesn’t mean that we were better 20 years ago.
So stop being catastrophic. here’s an interesting video showing where we are today and where we’re probably headed to.
Prohibitionism doesn’t work basically cause it can’t assure you that all the people will follow your rules. I don’t see how it can be productive for evolution. Rather it leads to black market which is not regulated.
Laws work cause they’re generally “supported” by people or “ignored” so they don’t understand why to fight them. Two countries with two different laws for the same subject? How to solve it? Through communication, debate and education. And yes, I think we’re headed towards global laws for resolving our current and future problems. Why? Cause these problems won’t include just one nations but all of them.
No we’re not while we’re still working to solve our current problems
(Edit: btw yeah I think we’re going off topic 
)
Sad but true. We will always be “working to solve our current problems”. I won’t be one of those sticking around to fix the screw up. That phrase usually translates (in the United States) to more funding for some type of policing. Pretty disgusting. I hear the documentary hak_mtl is pretty good. Will be adding it to my watch list. I don’t think you can watch this documentary in the U.S…
The ACLU is a good thought but not enough. When someone like Clapper can justify his actions you know it’s time to leave. We already have a document; it’s called the Constitution. We have all this law taken care of. It was done 200 years ago. Yet ultimate authority ultimately corrupts. There shouldn’t be any need for the USA Freedom Act. Stop lying to yourself. Secret courts were/are/is the downfall to any society. Democratic or not.
I appreciate the courage Poloniex has. Instead of bowing or submitting to psychopaths, Poloniex just said nope not gonna participate. We are out. KYC/AML laws? HAHA! yeah HAHA! That is how you take down tyrants. The next step is for the tyrant to attempt intimidation tactics. It’s pretty disgusting if you stop and think about it. Just so my neighbor can go and buy a brand new 60" T.V. Because the 55" just wasn’t good enough. Sad.
As if those laws like KYC/AML ever stopped the bad guys. LOL! “The Bad Guys” don’t follow the law. So all you do is cause more problems for the “law abiding citizens”. 
All that cake n eat it too! 
Turns out child abuse is running rampant in my country. Corruption hasn’t even hit the peak yet! It’s gonna get more corrupt! Gonna get worse before it gets butter.
Good luck.
P.S. Before some FBI goon shows up and states “i don’t like this”. I don’t F*** care. You tried and failed yo. Good luck. I’m out. You won’t have anything to police except each other. Which means you will have to take turns in prison. Leave each other love notes when you trade jail cells. Because who would be left to police? If little timmy badge wearing child molester is in prison? All the peaceful, law abiding, happy, productive, innovators left ?.? -_- ?.? ?.?WTF?.? Confusing I know.
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Except Poloniex held many people’s crypto hostage unless they complied with KYC/AML. Now any US resident/citizen who did comply will have all that sensitive data they shared sitting in the hands of a foreign entity they did not knowingly or wish to give their data.
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Good point. I wonder what safeguards there are in relation to that? Possibly none.
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I’m going to bet none…
I have so many responses to that comment I don’t even know how to start. Maybe always assume a governing body should be checked and balanced? Maybe always assume that an American politician is in it for profit and gain? Dunno just spit ballin there. Pretty safe to say there are plenty of history lessons. We were warned in the States a very long time ago about it.
But on a positive note Americans are apologizing publicly for being critical of a government. 
Tons of people apologizing to China for being critical. And we thought it could/would never happen.
Bring on UBI baby lets hit that last nail. Don’t wait lets do it! Because after all we are very similar if not the same as countries like Denmark, Sweden, and Belgium. They aren’t like the States but we are like them. So bring it!
Keep voting for these psychopaths that play off of your emotion meanwhile they profit off of your data. KYC/AML is so lucrative it’s not even funny. Just ask China. 
