How to make money with a SAFE-network app

[Modilus]

It is very important to get content/applications onto the SAFE-network to let it grow and really replace the current internet.
For this to happen we need developers and the easiest way to get developers is to tell them how to earn money on the SAFE-network.
I am sure a lot of developers will jump on board quickly if they know how to earn money on the SAFE-network in an unconventional way.

I already put some thoughts into how to make money with a SAFE-Network app since I am interested to build something with this network.
But I am not sure if my statements below are correct or if there are other possibilities:

• Content usage:
  People which access files will not only pay the provider but also the person who initially uploaded it. Maybe also the uploader of a file can pass ownership.
  Can we determine access fee (per kB or per file)? This would open the possibility to a database of files on a per use basis and not a ‘I pay 10$ per month even if I dont use anything’.

• Content access:
  Owner of a file shares read only access to subscribers. After subscribtion is ended, access to file is removed. Is the removal of access possible?
  Wouldnt it possible for a person to gain access once and copy everything nearly instantaniously into his own SAFE-network directory?

• Earnings by app usage:
  I read that core developers will get rewarded based on the GET requests into the network.
  But what happens to a developer who wraps those core apps (or others) and build an application on it? This new app will have no direct requests to the network and therefore will get no reward.
  Is there a structure in place that allows such wrapper to be identified and pass eg 30% of earnings to the wrapped application?

[whiteoutmashups]

Totally agree

Have publicly held this opinion about apps for a long time. They are what will make SAFE huuge.

That’s why I made that “Potential Apps” list and page, we need SAFEtube, SAFEoogle, SAFEdrive(FS ) etc etc

And getting back on topic, in terms of your list, I think the biggest way to make money will ultimately be:

• Earnings by Donations

Safe Coins will be perfect as they are great for cheap microtx’s (can be built into auto-donation bots or apps), and divisible to an extremely high degree.

So basically creating great things, and getting legitimate followings will get you lots of donations without any middlemen.

I think this is going to be bigger than anything else on the list but we have to wait to truly see.

[joshuef]

@Modilus

People which access files will not only pay the provider but also the person who initially uploaded it.

GETs are always free. If you wanted to charge someone to have access, that’s another thing…

@Modilus

Is the removal of access possible

Should be yes. We don’t have a comprehensive permission system in place yet. But it is planned. (There may be some nuance around that with the new data types. But it’s all to be confirmed).

@Modilus

This new app will have no direct requests to the network

If the data of the app is on the network, that’s some requests right there. I’m not sure what you describe is possible (as things stand… with good reasoning perhaps it could be). But I’m not convinced that’s desirable.

If Dev1 make a script… and you wrap that in something else. Why should Dev1 be paid any less?

[Modilus]

@joshuef

If Dev1 make a script… and you wrap that in something else. Why should Dev1 be paid any less?

Because dev2 would not get anything at all and therefore has less reason to build an app. I refer to this discussion: Reddit - Dive into anything
The important stuff:

Application Developers are paid at 10% of the Farming Rate for all GETs on the Network

So if 90% of the users use this app, most likely payment is roughly 9% of the Farming Rate for all GETs on the Network. But since my app would use safe-drive as single contact point to the network the network would not know its my app which is used by 90% of users right?

Therefore I would not receive any payment, instead the dev of safe-drive would receive everything.

[Modilus]

@joshuef

GETs are always free. If you wanted to charge someone to have access, that’s another thing…

So who pays the farmers?

[joshuef]

If dev 2 creates a super popular wrapper and Pay The Producer is in place, then that is also an option for generating income.

Another option is that dev 2 maybe needs to charge for the app? (one time fee or subscription)

Or perhaps negotiate with dev 1? (Though I’ve no idea how you’d identify how much use was coming from where…).

There are other options than App Dev rewards, but yeh, it’s certainly something dev 2 will want to consider.

[joshuef]

It’s worth noting, that as a wrapper though, dev 2 should be generating GETs of the code of dev 1 no at least.

Otherwise if you’re bundling that code, then it’s included in dev 2’s app… So dev 2 would / could get the reward.

(Whether that’s right or not is a different question)

[Modilus]

@joshuef

Otherwise if you’re bundling that code, then it’s included in dev 2’s app… So dev 2 would / could get the reward.

hmm, right. Than it would nice to have a system where we can define a split of reward. Eg dev1 30%, dev2 70%. Maybe also a way for a wrapped app to set a ‘default share’, which can be overwritten by wrapper.

Just thinking in a direction here where devs dont need to bother with incomes but rather generate them automatically.

[joshuef]

Hmm, then you’d be into negotiating with each dev you’re wrapping right? Which maybe is fair?

If devX makes up the bulk of your functionality. Would you want them to be the same? as Dev z which is only used for much less?

I’m not sure a one size fits all will ever be to everyone’s/anyone’s liking here…

Perhaps the simpler route of charging for the product makes sense? (and leaving App rewards alone?).

Good Qs to be asking though!

[Modilus]

@Antifragile

From monetization point of view, safenetwork has much more and better option than regular Internet, thanks to the safecoin and zero fee microtranzactions.

Examples and usecases would be nice Thus, if anyone builds an app, he can just look up this list and select a method which suits best.

[happybeing]

@Modilus

Examples and usecases would be nice Thus, if anyone builds an app, he can just look up this list and select a method which suits best

@Antifragile has a point in that this isn’t essential and will inevitably evolve, but I do agree that it is good to have a set of examples so people can see the opportunity and get building.

It will be good for adoption if we don’t force everyone to work this out themselves, so I hope folks who are thinking about ways to make money will pool their ideas and we can have some sort of guide, and where appropriate demo code, apps and libraries.

[drehb]

@Modilus

So who pays the farmers?

The simple answer is the network pays the farmers using its supply of spare coins. It pays more when space is running out so as to incentivize more farmers to join, and pays less when space is plentiful. Only 10% of the max supply of coins currently exist (or was it 15% due to investors before ICO?). Coins paid for PUTs also get recycled, which means the network is able to use them for farming payouts as well.

Looking at it another way, farmers are paid by all safecoin holders through inflation. If the point is reached where the network runs out of new coins, they are paid strictly by recycled coins - so by people paying to PUT data onto the network.

[david-beinn]

@drehb

Coins paid for PUTs also get recycled, which means the network is able to use them for farming payouts as well.

@drehb

Looking at it another way, farmers are paid by all safecoin holders through inflation.

This is the clearest explanation of the basics of the Safecoin economy I’ve seen, thanks. I’d sort of come round to assuming that must be the way things worked, but glad to see someone spell it out. It seems in the crypto world these sort of important basics very quickly get obscured by tech, and I’m never sure if I’m missing something, or if some folk are just happy for it all to seem magic.