How fast do you think new APPs will be developed after launch?

There are a ton of app ideas and I was just wondering how long it might take for these ideas to start being manifested into actually programs by various programmers after launch. I realize not all of them will be, some might mutate and so forth but I’m just wondering at the rate new apps will start popping up.

That’s a wish-list. I think those shouldn’t be confused with actual apps that people may be developing right now which may or may not be the same (I think mostly they are different).
Why do I think that? Because a lot of apps from the wish list already exist and just need to be adjusted to work with the Project Safe Network, so I doubt someone will develop a new app which differs from existing app in 1% of code.

  • New & native apps will start appearing in the first month after launch
  • Some may be similar to things from the wish-list
  • There will be more reports of current apps that can be modified to run with the Project Safe Network than of people deciding to develop wish-list apps from the scratch. I predict retrofitting existing apps with SAFE access will get more attention than things from the wish list
  • Really good native apps that simply have to be developed from scratch will take several months to appear

And why does this make such a big difference so long as it works and does what we want it to do? Why quibble over symantics?

I think this is an interesting one, if there were some kind of app repo that retrofitted apps could be placed on (like a public share) then it would be very attractive. This is one option we are looking to put in our dropbox replacement app for instance. It could prove to be popular to get any app and not have to install it (its installed in the public share per OS). Then if it had chromium or firefox all your cache, bookmarks, passwords (those soon to be antique things), data etc. would travel with your private data, not be left on any machine.


Exactly. I wrote about that here:

Let’s not get too generous with free space, 5KB ought to be enough for everyone (to understand the MaidSafe value proposition)!

(Maybe it’s not necessary to store browser cache on the Web because downloading it from the Network is not that much different from downloading it from the sites, but why not leave that to the user and expose it thru browser plugin Settings).

I doesn’t matter at all to me.

I’m just saying that you may have the same app (say, photo gallery) listed on the wish list and a non-native photo gallery product that can be made to work with MaidSafe, and if you then ask when the SAFE Project network will have a photo gallery app, I would give you two answers (non-native & retrofitted: Dec 2014; native: Feb 2015).
But if you think it’s not a big difference and want one answer, how to avoid a misunderstanding?

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kimdotcom mega offers 50gb free storage and they are still extremely successful. Google and dropbox also offer a few gigs of free storage and they are also not doing too bad ;).

The issue of freeloaders selling off data is not a big enough problem to justify drastically reducing project safes user base by such huge margins.

This is not about ensuring your safecoins have huge value, its about getting everyone on to project safe, by making the barrier to entry as low as possible.


I understand all that and I don’t think my coins would be made less worth, it’s just my personal preference (I don’t believe that a free account with bookmark syncing isn’t low enough a barrier - Xmarks Sync (bookmark sync add-on) got millions of users and basically all they do is sync browser bookmarks, which proves that with 1 simple app and 10KB per user you can build a community with several millions accounts without giving away 15 PB of space.)

Free space can be good marketing - sometimes it pays to spend a little to make more later on, but since marketing is a no-no word here we can call that “building a community” (the same thing, of course).

Dropbox used to be much more generous until people started opening multiple email accounts to take advantage of their freebies, then they disabled logging from multiple accounts in their client software (I think via a registry key, but I don’t remember any more).
Google still offers “free” space (for which you need to give them your phone number - for free as well), so all of them used to be exploited before and didn’t mind as long as they saw it as a good deal for them.
When it took epic proportions (remember those “Gmail Drive” types of apps?), they tightened the screws.

A lot depends how easy and lucrative it is to freeload. Since MaidSafe doesn’t ask for much in return, it could be more lucrative to abuse giveaway space here than it was elsewhere.

If any one wants to bet with me over this, let me know… :smiley:

Seems like the easiest way to resolve that is a 1:1 system for sharing. You get the same amount of space you’re reserving for the network.

If you offer 50gb of free space (or, shit, even 1mb), then the technical internet minds will do what they do best: turn abuse into a game. How much space can I get by producing multiple accounts? If its really easy, someone will just create an application or script that creates millions of accounts, manages them locally, and will build THAT as a new App for the Safe Network.

I’d say don’t offer any free space at all. The same way Google needs a phone number and Dropbox needs an email address, the Safe Network should need something in exchange from you for using the network. That should be your hard disk space.

If you can’t contribute, you cant store. Seems fair, clean, and the least manipulable.


eems like the easiest way to resolve that is a 1:1 system for sharing. You get the same amount of space you’re reserving for the network.

If you offer 50gb of free space (or, shit, even 1mb), then the technical internet minds will do what they do best: turn abuse into a game." Then how do i gain space by using the system. There’s no growth.

Could you elaborate?

My suggestion is how you get “free” space. You can still have the option to pay for it and sell it. You just don’t get to freeload the network.

It’d have to be 1:1 usable to be fair, so if you share 400 GB, you’d get a right to PUT 100 GB.
As I mentioned in other topics, we have to remember that each PUT-ed file is copied fourfold so if you upload 100 GB you’ll take up 400 GB from the network.

There are other important details which were mentioned elsewhere (I think also in this one). For example, if you delete 50 GB of your content but the network in v1.0 can’t delete, you’d still have to share the peak amount of space (400 GB) even though you now you’re needing just 200 GB of physical space (50 GB * 4 copies)…

This exists (as I’m sure you know :-)): WIkiPedia Portable Applications explains many of the systems, and the top Google link is the Portable App Directory

Putting this on the out of the box MaidSafe Dropbox app would be awesome! Nice one guys :-).

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If I have two hard drives and in order to use space on hard drive b I have to give up space on hard drive a there seems little point in transfering data from a to b as space on a will be taken up anyway. The point of doing a transfer is to free up space on A. Therefore what does one gain by transfering data into the system, from a data storage perspective? Yes you get anonymity, yes it’s decentralized, yes you can transfer privately and all that. And yes you have deduplification which theoretically could save you space. But let’s also remember maidsafe is dependent on an active internet connection. I very much doubt that people will want to give up having an offline copy of their data. And if you only have 1 hard drive then giving up space in order to get space at a 1:1 ratio is a very big deal.

I guess I see the function of the system differently. I don’t see it as a way of offloading my local data to a network to save space.

And in that case, I would say that people who want to offload their data should pay for the service, similar to a premium service on other sites. 1:1 (or 1:4 as pointed out by @janitor, I keep forgetting that 1:1 is deceptive in the context of redundancy). It’s similar to a leech.

Nothing can be free, so like a commune, you should have to contribute something to get something. In this case, sharing hard drive space yields hard drive space. If you need more space than you’re willing to share, then you should pay the network. And vice versa.

Offering free space doesn’t seem to help the network, IMO. It creates a larger user base on the content-creation side, but it doesn’t benefit the network. And it opens up a huge vector for attack.


Consider for a moment that a user contributes, or can contribute, more than just space. They can contribute processor power as well. Say I was “farming”, contibuting processor power while I was away from my computer and contributing space as well. Granted I might come back at some point but if I put in enough processor time during my afk hours doesn’t that mean I’m entitled to more space measured one presumes in safecoin? Also over time a lot of the files on one’s hard drive won’t be unique to the maidsafe system. They’ll be unique to one’s local system but not the network. Therefore the way to put data on is to submit new content. So in order to fill space on the network you need new content. Offering free space allows people to use the network. Do you want to give up space on your hard drive to store things on dropbox? No, you want to store a copy of your files on dropbox.

Currently the system only rewards disk space (and by that proxy, network, CPU and other resources).
I created a topic in which I suggested that a more sophisticated resource consumption model be built for a future version (it’s not realistic to overhaul the current model for v1.0, I think). There I also asked that other resources (like network throughput) and clients (like intermediate nodes, not just farmers) be rewarded with Safecoins.

You can create 1 TB of unique content by zipping random garbage from the internet into a large 1TB zip file.
You probably wouldn’t get many requests for that, but you could name it and maybe you’ll get a few requests before people give your site low ratings. But there are subtler ways (you prepend a 1 second clip to the beginning of Terminator and you’ll have “unique” content (in terms of MaidSafe’s ability to tell your video from the original Terminator which you ripped of DVD)). This may change as the product matures, but it will take a while.

I agree and I argued on these forums that SMBs and larger enterprises will not want to have just one backup (or two) on the SAFE network…

Blindsite2k said:
I very much doubt that people will want to give up having an offline copy of their data

Have no doubt, I’m all in…and why wouldn’t I be for files that aren’t linked to heavy processing tasks.

Secure Data, accessible from any phone or networked computer in the world. For your everyday dumb files, it’s a no brainer for me.

Whole files are kaput. Were only a year or two from having a fibre/wireless broadband system in place here in Oz…it’s gonna fly :slight_smile:

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Sure, that may be fine for some, but it won’t be good enough for the majority.
If you lose the first copy, you’ll have to download (restore) your data from the SAFE network.
If you can wait or have just 50 GB to download, no problem. Otherwise what you save on storage you may lose in unplanned downtime costs or network bandwidth charges.
No doubt users will figure out what suits their needs and there will be a variety of scenarios.

You say wont, I say will
You say nope, and I say will, will will
I dont know why you say they wont, I know they will

hahaha :sunny:

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