bitcoin “rewards” miners and bitcoin has value buy people understanding the usefullness of it.
bitcoin has value because you can buy things online securly (not anymore but thats why it gained value)
so safecoin!
why not have free PUT?
it would work like this:
people will understand how usefull it is and they will buy it in markets!
vautls will gain safecoin and then will sell it on a market, where buyers will buy it no matter what is the price cause people with safecoin can buy things and use it anywhere because its secure anonymous and all in all the best online way of doing business.
so how will the vaults get rewarded? by just selling the safecoin they make!
how would that be implemented? I am thinking that the safecoin never leaves the network because safecoin is in the networks accounts?
This is one of the problems of bitcoin. It has little utility and so has turned into a mix of speculation, store of value and as we regularly see, mistakenly for anonymous payments.
We can argue that Safecoin will have more utility and better characteristics than bitcoin and so will gain value from that, but it is up against all the first mover advantage of bitcoin and existing invester inertia in the cryptocurrency space. So IMO it needs value from things that attract new people to its utility.
I think that’s the key. If you can have free PUTs and create demand for Safecoin from the people attracted to those free PUTs, there can be a discussion. So you will need to charge them for something, or they bring no value and get a free ride.
So I believe you will need to charge for PUTs or something else in order to create demand (and value) from new adopters.
And Anders has been shot down by many people. For some reason he keeps thinking that things will work his way and there are not evil people who would just love to spam the network with junk data and fill it up.
Once this happens the network is basically dead.
End of story.
Evidence was in one testnet that was fill up by exactly that.
Simple comment - the network is not about the coin but about enabling the world, the whole world (rich, poor and very poor) access to the worlds information. All they will need is a internet access.
Allowing the idiots of the internet to spam fill the network with garbage destroys that.
But in relation to the coin with free PUTs, the network will not provide (much) useful data, people will opt for the current internet and no substantial rewards given since few GETs
Now to value of the coin, without any utility there is no value, without value it cannot compete with existing coins especially bitcoin and like the majority of other coins (some nigh on free or free to transfer) it will never rise above peanuts. Then people will turn off their vaults because rewards do not cover even the couple of watt-hours of electricity extra a week to run a vault
Exist an old and long topic where our friend @Anders insist, again and again, in this idea and now we’re repeating the same critics as before.
It is laudable to have strong ideas but persist in one, that the immense majority considers that would destroy the network, it’s a waste of time.
It would be better to think about the possibility that, for example the foundation or a set of donor angels, would create a system where tens of thousands of free accounts would be distributed.
Of course the problem is how to minimize the accumulation of these accounts by a small group.
Pay the Client aka Pay the Consumer (PtC) rewards would be a way to accomplish this. Users could activate an advertising frame in the safe browser and earn safe coin. The advertisers would pay for each GET on their content and a portion or all of this would be transferred to the viewer. The user would then be free to use the coin for PUTs or anything else they fancy.
With no useful storage there will not be vaults and thus no coin. You cannot have rewards without protection from significant spam/garbage data being put onto the network by the same people (and others who want to destroy the network) who did it in a previous testnetwork
Hm… Why not give an amount of free puts each month and if you want more you pay? Lets say people upload 100gb a month give that for free and of you exceed your quota have price for more gb
Because as ethical as I am, I would still register multiple accounts to multiply that up to a lot more.
And evil people would have 1000’s of accounts and SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM to their heart’s content. Sung to Monty Python’s tune about spam.
ANY ideas that make SAFE effectually and totally free with a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is GREEDY and self centred at best and … at worst.
It is playing on the desire that we all have somewhere inside of us to get everything for free. It does not work, everything has a cost and always avoiding that destroys it for the rest of us.
Anders and now his disciple too need to read my post and realise it does not work. It has been discussed a few times (discussed to death) because the ones wanting FREE FREE FREE do not listen to everyone who has explained to them repetitively how it will not work with historical proof.
As I understand it, the SAFE network doesn’t rely on calendar time. However each new account could in the beginning (while MaidSafe has control over giving out accounts) be given a certain amount of safecoins for free (just to solve the chicken & egg problem).
I have to admit that my proposal of free puts will not work when all safecoins have been farmed, because there would be no recycling of coins! So, okay I give up on the idea about free PUTs and I do believe needing to pay only ONCE for PUTs is excellent. I hate the usual cloud storage solutions where you have to pay month after month after month, forever! That’s NOT owning one’s data, that’s just renting storage space. The SAFE network with a one time pay for PUTs is superior in that sense I confess.
Hate to say but history already shows that all safecoin will never be farmed and maybe only a few percent will since the farmers will leave in droves when there are virtually no GETs being done since the network has been SPAMMED to death.
Ok I want a rule for this thread, its discussion how can there be a system that would work with free puts. If you dont have any way to that and all you want is to flame I would like you to not be part of the discussion.
This is a thread, can there be a viable system with free put,
You said spam, lets try then to solve that (with free put, dont say there has to be put cost please)
No it is not possible to have a viable system with any amount of free PUTs.
History already showed that even with one PUT free the system can be spammed to death. Just creating accounts (one PUT) can kill the storage.
As @jlpell tried to suggest you need a method that can put some safecoin in the hands of people without farming, and he suggested by opt-in advertising through the safebrowser app.
Or you can do as suggested by the current design and run a vault.
They are two easy and viable ways to effectively have free PUTs without PUTs being free and help the network in the progress.
But any just giving away free PUTs does not work as history proved and why I made a VERY clear statement in the two topics.
Thus you need to come up with a way to get safecoin into the hands of people and give up the notion of FREE PUTs
And this is how misinformation gets perpetuated: when people—selfishly, ignorantly, or both—wish to silence debate in order to slant the discussion to their ill-informed favor. How have we come to live in a world where we no longer value knowledge, experience or excellence? If a well-informed person has told you what you suggest isn’t possible, the answer isn’t to silence that person. The answer is to develop a well-reasoned rebuttal to address the arguments raised.
If this point has been made I apologize, but I can’t see how free PUTS would work for this reason as well: I have about 10 GB of data I would want to store for the long term. This is data I would likely almost never GET as I have local storage for that that is much faster. I would only pull it back if I lost my local copy or needed remote access to a few files. So let’s say very conservatively that my PUT to GET ratio is 100 to 1, though it is likely much higher than that. I am probably not alone in this as most “home users” are probably in a similar situation.
Running the network has a cost. This doesn’t change. It will either be paid by PUTS or GETS, though some hybrid is certainly possible. However, the point I am making is that the GET price in my case will need to be 100X what my PUT cost would be. That will very much provide an incentive for me NOT to use the network for anything but cold storage. That is not the way to grow an active, thriving network. Most people browse and explore with the expectation that this will be free, then decide to upload/archive something with the expectation that this may have a cost.
I don’t think Bitcoin is a good example to compare to. It only really has value since it was first. It doesn’t do anything but exist, and that is a dying “business” model over the long term IMO. Look at all the worthless altcoins. While we very much may become a valuable currency, the network reward system should be set up to be self-sustaining without that boost. As many have said, the focus should be on what makes sense for the network and the rest will follow.
Now, there could be a way to provide “seed coins” to people who need it. If an enterprising group of coin holders wanted to set up a site to give out (or loan out) coins to those who want to PUT without cost that is a viable solution. I would actually be happy to donate a few coins to such a project. I just would want them to go to someone honestly needing a little help to get started rather than spammers looking to get ahead. So vetting is required. But once we have an easy place to buy coins it seems like that would be the more efficient route for anyone wanting to participate rather than having to set up a process to vet applicants.
It is more powerful if a tag analogous to PtP could be used. In the case of PtP, the producer would get rewarded for a GET on their content. In the case of PtC, an advertiser would be charged for a GET on their content.
The user’s choice to add an advertising frame could be an App or browser plugin of some type.
The coin is closely connected to the network’s functionality and values. Safecoin is not just a coin, but a functional part of the whole network