Feedback and Questions on the SystemDocs

[nicklambert]

@hillbicks

And we do not appear in the first K

K = 1000?

K in the sense of a DHT refers to the replication factor, so a value of 3 would mean that data is committed on 3 separate nodes.

@hillbicks

MAID (MaidSafe Anonymous ID)PMID (Proxy Maidsafe ID)MPID (Maidsafe Public ID)MSID (Maidsafe Share ID)

What’s the name for that? Just SAFE? Replace the M with an S?

I think we should leave this as is for now. The devs are so tied to this jargon that it is inherent throughout all communication explaining the system, changing this now is likely to cause confusion. A more gradual change would probably work better.

@hillbicks

or would-be hackers

can we please remove that? That doesn’t sound convincing nor professional and it doesn’t go into specifics, so I think it shouldn’t be there

Agreed, changed to : …or manipulation of would-be adversaries

@hillbicks

If no record exists then each of the Data Managers of this group closes to the NAE being stored selects a connected node as a PmidNode to store on (if the message has a Data Holder hint then the closest of the data managers of this NAE attempts to store there).

I guess that should be closest, right?

Yes, it should be closest, thanks.

@hillbicks

What is a ManagerDb/AccountDb? It’s only mentioned twice in 4.1.9, nowhere else.

Changed to key value store

@hillbicks

There is a mention of MaidNode and MaidManager, so we should probably look for maid instead of maidsafe.

Please refer to my earlier answer on use of jargon.

@hillbicks

PS: I just addded a sentence to the first page that states:

Please be aware that this book was translated by community members. It may contain translation errors. If you should see an error, please provide feedback to the community which you can reach here https://forum.autonomi.community/.

Nice

[nicklambert]

@hillbicks

I’m not sure what is meant by cost? Is it the “amount of safecoin” that has to be paid in order to ‘PUT’ data onto the network?

Yes

@hillbicks

Important data is faster when it’s important and slows downs otherwise, making good use of network resources.

I think we’ll have to see how that pans out in reality, but it looks to me now, we’re breaking net neutrality with that design. This is just as a reminder for myself, because that would be really bad in my opinion. Link to previous thread that talks about this Net neutrality - #18 by anon86652309

I have changed this to popular data

@hillbicks

One thing I’d like to mention again is the use of words like may and should. I’m not sure why you choose to use these in the SystemDocs because it seems kind of strange to me that there are scenarios where it is not clear what will happen.

Once we have these assertions confirmed in tests and a running network then we will clear up the language here to be much more definitive.

@hillbicks

Close nodes can become temporary stores of data very easily, allowing many advantages to system designers.

such as?

I will possibly need @dirvine to confirm this point quickly and I will update the docs.

[hillbicks]

Yeah, I already expected these names to stay that way, which is fine by me. I’ll adopt these changes into the translation.

Thanks for the explanation Nick!

[dmitry_n]

2.3

This passport contains cryptographically secure keys and/or a list of other keys to make use of the information to be stored or shared.

What list of other keys? Why is it used?

Finally the encrypted access permission are stored on the SAFE Network using the following structure:
**Store On Network [H(K+S)] Symmetric Encrypt [ PBKDF2[P][S] ] (Account)**

Why ‘are stored’, not ‘is stored’, permission is singular I suppose. Misspelt?
And does the permission in this scope mean ‘document’ like paper permission so as it can be stored?

BTW, does this structure need to be translated? I guess no.

[nicklambert]

@dmitry_n

This passport contains cryptographically secure keys and/or a list of other keys to make use of the information to be stored or shared.

What list of other keys? Why is it used?

I have amended this phrase to: ‘This passport contains a variety of key types that enable different tasks to be performed across the network’. For your own interest the actual key types are listed here although this is probably going deeper than is the intention with the docs.

@dmitry_n

Finally the encrypted access permission are stored on the SAFE Network using the following structure:
Store On Network [H(K+S)] Symmetric Encrypt [ PBKDF2[P][S] ] (Account)

Why ‘are stored’, not ‘is stored’, permission is singular I suppose. Misspelt?And does the permission in this scope mean ‘document’ like paper permission so as it can be stored?

You are correct, it should read ‘is stored’. I have made the correction, nice spot.

@dmitry_n

BTW, does this structure need to be translated? I guess no.

It would be great if you could @dmitry_n. Another person we owe a giant beer too! (it’s going to be some bar tab)

[dmitry_n]

@nicklambert

It would be great if you could @dmitry_n. Another person we owe a giant beer too! (it’s going to be some bar tab)

Oh, I meant translating only the name of the structure
But if there is a document about that to be translated, I don’t mind, but firstly I will finish SystemDocs translation.

BTW, I’ve noticed that usually it’s written on the SAFE Network, but sometimes I met in the SAFE Network. Are these ways both correct?

And one more question: should I report to you about every misspelt found? I can gather them all so as to write only one big message in the end.

[Aster]

So far I have translated 1 to 2.2.8 into Swedish. I am doing this so I can learn about the technology and contribute to the community. I have basicly made a literal translation of the documents.

Sometimes I would like to phrase it in another way, or would like to add or remove some information, but since I am not a computer scientist, nor have any detailed insight into the project, I want to stay close to the original text. The original text is sometimes a bit unclear though. I actually think the English version should get some retouches. There are some redundant information, missing information, or could be explained in a clearar way.

I have several questions, see below. Sorry for any confusion due to my English or technical comprehension.

1.3

No passwords or log in details are cached by the SAFE client or stored on the network. This means that no details about you or your access security is left on the PC you have used to access the SAFE Network.

Does this mean that the password or login details are never stored in any form, or does it only mean that they are never stored as plain text? I asume that some kind of information about the user must be stored on the network, though encrypted and obfuscated, otherwise it shouldn´t be possible to log in.

2.1

The data map, with hashes before and after encryption, is used when retrieving and decoding the user’s data, as the encryption process is non reversible.

Is the data map hashed before and after it is encrypted?

2.2

A peer to peer (p2p) network that is very accurate and can guarantee Vault proximity to any address

I don´t understand this sentence. Is it meant to mean that each vault (node) must know its proximity (the nearest nodes), and uses a DHT to do this? Or that it has access to every adress?

2.2.2

The Vault identification process involves creating two key pairs. One key pair is a revocation key and is used only to create and invalidate a real key.
The real key pair is created and the public key is signed by the revocation private key and this packet (public key plus signature) is stored on the network as a Vault Identification key type. This Hash is then used as the Vault identity.

Just to clarify. The two key pairs are the revocation key pair and the real key pair. Right? And the hash is stored as a Vault Identification key?

2.2.4

Many home connections are made using routers which supply private addresses that cannot appear on the Internet. A commonly used mechanism is to make use of STUN servers.

Is the STUN-server used in routers that supply addresses that cannot appear on the Internet, or are they used as a mechanism to overcome this limitation for the routers in home connections?

2.2.5

This mechanism is triggered on Get requests and during account transfers. It is non-deterministic and randomised by use by users. It is considered to be secure and uses zero knowledge, not to conceal content (as anyone can ask for any data), but to ensure any data which is contaminated is not required to be transferred.

What does this mean? This paragraph is rather unclear to me.

2.2.6

Vaults are rewarded for supplying resources by being awarded safecoins at a rate proportional to the Vault’s rank. As a result users are not locked to a particular Vault.

I don´t understand how the former statement about Vaults being awarded safecoins implies the latter statement that users therefore are not locked to a particular vault.

Users do not require to have their account managed, even in a secured manner.

What does this mean?

Rank is an internal measure of the Vault’s stored versus lost data. This is used to manage network authority in addition to the authority a Vault has in relation to its closeness to an address.

Not sure I understand this. What does authority mean in this context?

2.2.7

In this paragraph I would like to add that data is stored in different nodes and when a node is removed (eg a computer turned off) its data is copied to another node instead. This would explain why the network has redundance and is secure against attacks to single points of data.

A Vault’s distance from an address is a measure of that Vaults authority to make decisions on that address in a particular circumstance.

I don´t understand why this sentence is here. It doesn´t explain anything in this context.

[nicklambert]

@Aster

No passwords or log in details are cached by the SAFE client or stored on the network. This means that no details about you or your access security is left on the PC you have used to access the SAFE Network.

Does this mean that the password or login details are never stored in any form, or does it only mean that they are never stored as plain text? I asume that some kind of information about the user must be stored on the network, though encrypted and obfuscated, otherwise it shouldn´t be possible to log in

Password details are all client side. So all a users files are contained within their data atlas, part of the user credentials will deliver the data atlas back to the users computer/device and they will need the correct password to gain access to their files.

@Aster

The data map, with hashes before and after encryption, is used when retrieving and decoding the user’s data, as the encryption process is non reversible.

Is the data map hashed before and after it is encrypted?

The data chunks are hashed before and after encryption. The data map is then run through the self encryption process, as per any other piece of data, so is also hashed before and after encryption.

@Aster

Just to clarify. The two key pairs are the revocation key pair and the real key pair. Right? And the hash is stored as a Vault Identification key?

Correct on both

@Aster

Is the STUN-server used in routers that supply addresses that cannot appear on the Internet, or are they used as a mechanism to overcome this limitation for the routers in home connections?

They are used to overcome the limitations of not having an IP address

@Aster

This mechanism is triggered on Get requests and during account transfers. It is non-deterministic and randomised by use by users. It is considered to be secure and uses zero knowledge, not to conceal content (as anyone can ask for any data), but to ensure any data which is contaminated is not required to be transferred.

What does this mean? This paragraph is rather unclear to me

Proof of resource (POR) is triggered as data is retrieved from vaults (Gets) as opposed to when it is initially stored (Puts). During POR the network is able to validate that data is being stored correctly without needing knowledge of what the data is (zero knowledge proof).

@Aster

Vaults are rewarded for supplying resources by being awarded safecoins at a rate proportional to the Vault’s rank. As a result users are not locked to a particular Vault.

I don´t understand how the former statement about Vaults being awarded safecoins implies the latter statement that users therefore are not locked to a particular vault.

I agree, this sentence does not flow correctly, I have removed the second part of the sentence.

@Aster

Users do not require to have their account managed, even in a secured manner.

What does this mean?

No third party (company/organisation) is required to facilitate any user actions, everything is handled between the user and the network.

@Aster

Rank is an internal measure of the Vault’s stored versus lost data. This is used to manage network authority in addition to the authority a Vault has in relation to its closeness to an address.

Not sure I understand this. What does authority mean in this context?

In this context, authority could be thought of as it’s ability to affect change

@Aster

In this paragraph I would like to add that data is stored in different nodes and when a node is removed (eg a computer turned off) its data is copied to another node instead. This would explain why the network has redundance and is secure against attacks to single points of data.

This would be a worthwhile addition, do you want to have a go at phrasing the addition, or would you like me to add it in?

@Aster

A Vault’s distance from an address is a measure of that Vaults authority to make decisions on that address in a particular circumstance.

I don´t understand why this sentence is here. It doesn´t explain anything in this context.

I think the end of the sentence is not hugely revealing, suggest we remove the second half so that it reads: ‘A Vault’s distance from an address is a measure of that Vaults authority to make decisions on that address’.

[nicklambert]

@dmitry_n

Oh, I meant translating only the name of the structure But if there is a document about that to be translated, I don’t mind, but firstly I will finish SystemDocs translation.

Yes I was also just meaning the structure name, I was just generally saying that we owe you a very large drink for all your efforts!

@dmitry_n

BTW, I’ve noticed that usually it’s written on the SAFE Network, but sometimes I met in the SAFE Network. Are these ways both correct?

It should probably be ‘on the SAFE Network’.

@dmitry_n

And one more question: should I report to you about every misspelt found? I can gather them all so as to write only one big message in the end.

Yes please consolidate the changes and I’ll get them taken care of, thanks again!

[dmitry_n]

2.5

 Almost all early safecoin holders will be farmers with this supply of resource creating both liquidity and distribution of wealth.

What ‘this supply’? And what is meant at all here?

The ratio of safecoin being saved (left in new wallets) versus the ratio being issued to Farmers will produce a price point. This point will be the market value of safecoin

What are new wallets?

Within the SAFE Network, transfer of data, safecoin included, is atomic, using a cryptographic signature to transfer ownership.

Em… Atomic?
I don’t get it

[dirvine]

@dmitry_n

Em… Atomic?

Means “as one” or a single transaction.

[happybeing]

@dirvine

Em… Atomic?

Means “as one” or a single transaction.

Atomic = Indivisible.

[kirkion]

@dmitry_n

Em… Atomic? I don’t get it

@happybeing

Atomic = Indivisible

So a Satoshi, would be the atomic unit of Bitcoin, because thats the smallest possible denomination of a bitcoin.

[digipl]

Atomic as linearizability.

An operation (or set of operations) is atomic if it appears to the rest of the system to occur instantaneously

[nicklambert]

@dmitry_n

Almost all early safecoin holders will be farmers with this supply of resource creating both liquidity and distribution of wealth.

What ‘this supply’? And what is meant at all here?

This means that we believe the vast majority of early safecoin holders will have obtained them via farming by providing (or supplying) their spare computing resource, as opposed to participating in the crowd sale.

@dmitry_n

The ratio of safecoin being saved (left in new wallets) versus the ratio being issued to Farmers will produce a price point. This point will be the market value of safecoin

What are new wallets?

This refers to the wallets that will be integrated into the SAFE client. Other third party wallets will follow.

Just let me know if you need anything else.

[dmitry_n]

An EXCHANGE allows a requester to update the details of the safecoin but only if it follows the necessary rules.
* Owner is approved by the majority of 3rd party Vaults (escrow).
* Owner can (previous and current owners considered as approved themselves) update all fields.
* Each 3rd party Vaults (escrow) can only update their correspondent field once.
* Each time previous and current owner fields get updated, the safecoin version must be increased by one, and all escrow fields are erased.

Please explain me these rules particularly. I’m not sure I understand the word ‘escrow’ in these terms. Also does the first rule equal group consensus or is it way different thing?