I have witnessed several people crowdfund money for apps to be built for the SAFE Network using this forum and community as the predominant source to fund the projects.
Am I the only person that feels that most are extremely active during and before the funding and then once the money is in getting any info and seeing any progress is a mission to say the least.
I feel that this reflects very poorly on the community.
We should not ask for updates or progress reports and these should not take days or weeks to arrive with hollow progress most of the time.
The folk who sent hard earned money deserve better as does the community as a whole.
Edit. @whiteoutmashups you definitely do the best at keeping us informed. Well done!
I was just talking on a pm about this and a few thoughts I gave were that it’s still a Bit early for SAFE and its projects. It might not make much sense for everybody to spend the resources delivering complete drafts yet for a barely alpha network that could change drastically next week, etc.
I think we all get a bit discouraged at times since we expect SAFE to be X percent finished by X date, but the SAFE proposition and problems to solve are very large and don’t always fit with our imaginary timelines.
Just a few thoughts I’ve seen from the other app projects and from my own.
tl;dr although we’re all years into this, it’s still kind of the early days for SAFE
Which is why my focus at this point in time is on growing as a developer and also still on the marketing / outreach side of things, which I always felt MaidSafe didn’t quite have enough time for so I could help there
But it is always good to ask these questions and keep everyone on their toes!
As a contrast example I suggest SAFEpress, which has not raised any funds but also follows the pattern you identified.
So it’s, IMO, a natural part of building a project that it has phases, and that in the early days it would have more visible activity participation.
I don’t see anything necessarily sinister, nor am I ruling it out (yes that happens), but I see nothing to suggest that with Decorum or SAFE-FS for example.
You might also consider projects that we are seeing very little in public about, and which did not seek funds (yet). They are quiet too.
I do agree though that projects would be advised to consider how this is perceived and to do what they can to give updates from time to time. The community also needs to understand that this is hard for one person projects in particular. There really is an enormous amount of work, mostly unseen, and the pressure is always to deliver, and so to get on with it rather than be posting things which inevitably invite queries that take up yet more time to answer.
I’d suggest patience, asking for updates from time to time, but not to read anything sinister into silence until it becomes unreasonable.
First off I didn’t invest in any of the projects that were pitched on this forum, so I have no personal interest in being kept up to date on their progress other than personal curiosity.
I believe once you have raised funds from others for a project you are obligated to keep them up to date on your progress. It doesn’t cost a lot of time to type a few sentences every week or so. If there’s progress to report: share the progress and let people know what you did. If there’s no progress to report: share that there’s no progress and let people know why. There are plenty of valid reasons for no progress: vacation, being under the weather, waiting for the outcome of an RFC, waiting for next Alpha release, etc.
If you anticipate there not being any progress for an X amount of weeks or days just tell people: next update in X days/weeks. Then make sure to hop on the thread at the promised time and give a short update. People will have an opinion either way (progress or no progress), but they won’t accuse you of keeping them in the dark and not being transparent about the project.
I see your points and agree. I think its not uncommon to see this pattern in early stage development. Most are honest unsophisticated entrepreneurs who just bury themselves in the project and are oblivious to many things. OTOH…some feel empowered by their newfound riches and grow fat cocky heads. They soon learn what goes around, comes around.
Maybe a SAFE Crowdfunding App that has some built-in and transparent structure so expectations for updates are understood and met without fail.
That you were just talking on PM about it goes to show… others feel the same.
The most concerning part to me is the “bit too early for SAFE and its projects”
A developer worth his salt and who is prepared to ask others to fund a project should be well aware of the limitations prior to asking for money.
If somebody tells me I want money to build x I presume that they are capable of doing so and have done the homework. I do not expect that they will come back to me after I gave them my money and say… I am waiting on the necessary components to build my project, they need to be created first.
“bit harsh” I don’t think so, unacceptable.
(I am not having a go at you in particular… as I said you at least maintain a presence and communication which is a lot more than any others and that instills a level of trust)
On the contrary I feel the not crowd funded projects deliver more than those who asked for money and who have an obligation to the people who funded them.
in regards to n99 have posted dev update // roadmap every month Project n99 - An Interactive Platform for Creators - #248 by we_advance [with the exception of last month due to next of kin life threatening illness] Not a developer myself, more time than expected has been spent specifying the required functionality to enable efficient development and achieve optimum capabilities within the limited resources available. I have identified there are things that can be accomplished whilst waiting for SAFEnetwork and have re-planned the project accordingly. Every day has been spent connecting with people and forging networks to support our strategy, bringing quality people on-board step-by-step it has been inspiring;
All projects go through the forming stage and take a while to get everything in place. Progressing into the storming stage without this first step causes issues further down the line. A controlled start and controlled finish are the two key factors in successful projects and I am doing everything possible to ensure n99 is a success.
Yeah, that’s why we’re working on them and giving updates. What do you want, right now? Money spent on app drafts right now?
Do you think that’s the right decision to make right now at this point of the network? What are the demands here,
Starting to just speak from anger now so I’ll stop, but trying to see what everyone’s freaking out about this early on.
We all thought things would be farther along in the SAFE world by now, so we prepared for that and made sure to secure our foundations for the apps. SAFE is a long term investment, we’re all learning, which has effects on all the apps.
Work is being done and updates are being given, but if you want projects with updates on some predetermined schedule that you set them invest in Maid and get it on Tuesdays, but not in PDC or SEC or SEEDs or SFSC.
These are third party projects each with their own flows, schedules and processes
Hard to go from no company and just an idea, to 100% operational venture with blogs, regular updates, complete communication systems. Even if the funding comes in quickly, there are many things to get in place, which is why we see this quiet period after the sale for all these projects mentioned. I try to keep talking though
Took MaidSafe a decade to get to the level they are at today.
Perhaps everyone was crowdfunding slightly prematurely. I guess we all thought SAFE would come to life sooner. Waiting is a bitch, but as they learned on the public transport networks, it hurts less if you can see the time to next bus/train. Keeping people in the loop with regular updates definitely helps them deal with their impatience, even if there isn’t much news to give.
Thanks to whiteoutmashups and weadvance for their efforts to do that… would be great to hear more about pdc in coming weeks as maidsafe releases more and more useful stuff for App devs. I don’t doubt seneca is working hard on something great, but it would be nice to have an idea what was going on behind closed doors… I share some of savages impatience for news
Being worth your salt = being able to predict SAFE launch / timeline?
Also, if you were making an app, would you wait until the last minute to raise the funds to get it done, and hopefully finish everything in time to be competitive?
Crowdfunding and getting started as early as possible is logically the best way to ensure success of your app.
I’m staying very up to date with the project and feel I’m making the best decisions possible at each point in time. If SafeCoin profits were to be available tomorrow then I would shift focus to shorter term targets than from currently slightly longer term ones, but that’s not the case right now. I can only guess, but I am guessing the other devs may feel somewhat similar, but I can’t speak for anyone else
Maybe those key players could share lessons learned and identify the struggles for the Next Gen builders.
What would an app for crowdfunding look like? Crowd funding using all cryptos (integration/partner with ShapeShift) on the SAFE Network. Killer app stuff.
That’s why I refuse to do crowd funding just yet. I’m waiting for the right time, then I’ll do it. Right now, safenet is still in pre-alpha testing stages. There are still lots to learn. Not just that, I’m swapped with life at the moment, so it’s pretty hard for me to get involved with the community, and the project I really want to work on.
(to an extent)
