Hey everyone, we are drafting ideas about rapidly streamlining kickstarters for many many SAFE Apps Long term project.
#The Fund: The main idea of all this is to create a small crypto-fund for creating SAFE Apps. It would be like a single pot that the community and others can deposit into, and it gets used for funding as many small apps as possible for SAFE. The community can contribute, and then provide & vote on ideas for which types of Apps they want. Then the managers (or anyone) submit possible candidates to work on the apps. For example, I have gotten many devs familiar with SAFE & its frameworks, and I can also reccomend my SAFE-FS devs in this way. But anyone can apply to work on apps, just like anyone can deposit.
I imagine it going like this: The pot gets to a few hundred USD, and people post what kinds of apps they want. Then I and others look around for devs and conduct some interviews. We say the job is âXâ and the budget is âXâ ($50, $25, etc). Then they do the job, we verify it works as the community envisioned, and when they are happy we release the payment. Many websites facilitate exactly this, most namely Upwork.com
#MaidSafe Asia:
They have expressed lots of interest in app competitions, and perhaps we could merge efforts here. They have already agreed to fund app competitions, and this idea could multiply their efforts in a few ways. One is that they could possibly match all crypto sent to the community fund, so that there is twice as much to work with, and twice as many apps being made This model could also be replicated by @frabrunelle, @hunterlester, myself, and anyone else running a MaidSafe Meeting / Pod, because they could meet some min requirements like 5 entrants submitting open-source SAFE Apps, and then BAM they get $50 or $100 etc to give as a prize for their 1st place! Could help SAFE spread globally!
#Possible Returns:
If the pot has trouble growing without incentives, there are many options that could be explored. One is that the apps would have to be posted on SAFE when live, and 10% of all coins get sent back to the original funding addresses. Another option is that all apps would HAVE to be Open-Source, so that anyone from the community could clone or work with these apps to make SafeCoin income of their own. This would enrich the open-source SAFE community in more ways than one.
I began a test run with MaidSafe Asia tonight, and they pledged $50 worth of BTC for a open-source web app that uploads and lists your public data in the SAFE Browser. I got 4 proposals from devs who agreed to the budget, and one is currently working on it. Will be a good trial of the whole system.
**Also, they arenât taking any cuts from this app. Theyâre just doing it for the open source SAFE community. Putting their $ where their mouth is
There are a lot ideas out on this forum when it comes to âmost wanted Appsâ. Just have a look at this topic with 519 replies . a lot of them are complicated and involve weeks of work for the MaidSafe devs. Just to keep it simple and focus on Web Aps hereâs a little idea I would like to propose.
Chatworld
Chatworld is an easy to use App that runs in The SAFE Browser and allows you to have public chats. It uses your public_id as the âusernameâ. When you open the App youâll see a chatbox called âSAFE Communityâ which you can join with 1 click. Thereâs also a button called âCreate Chatboxâ which allows you to pick a name and open your own chatbox. You can share this name with others and whoever knows the name of this chatbox can join it using a search field in which they enter the name.
Iâll make a website for this, once all the nuances have been discussed by everyone here and agreed on. Will have a BTC address and list of apps being worked on
SAFEtweets
A bare-bones social network. Every user gets a profile page, and can make âtweetsâ (140xr statuses). Others can go on their page, and possibly add comments with the MaidSafe comment app that was released. Simple!
I see it as important that each app is open source & easy for others to develop further or adapt.
A bunch of easy to use modules of code that work in Safe apps would be very helpful to developers getting involved (I say as a non developer, so could be wrong!).
Love the idea, and if a lot of MaidSafeCoin holders contribute, Iâm sure theyâll reap a reward in the value of their holdings if lots of cool apps are available & developers can easily achieve their aims.
I am not enthusiastic about what you have proposed. The centralized control point of having yourself or any other arbitrary group of managers serving as a wall between investors, community and developers is too controlling and restrictive. Upwork is a terrible company that creates a race-to-the-bottom environment for skilled workers. I know I have no interest in participating in anything like that.
I would suggest something more like a merge of product hunt, angel list and open collective . People pitch ideas that can attract community feedback, direct investor interest, and people who would like to contribute to building it.
I agree the site should a basic governance model that could include an open-souce option, and how investors receive ROI. The open collective model is interesting in terms of how projects are managed transparently with open budgets/ledgers.
race to the bottom is exactly perfect, the whole idea here is to stretch the money as far as possible and to get as many apps as possible made out of every cent put into the fund
to get as much open source code and projects available to the SAFE community
thatâs exactly what is being proposed, the address will be on the front of the website and every transaction publicly available right there to view on the blockchain. Payments made every time there is a competition or successful app made and released
When CrowdFlower launched they pushed the whole âget dozens of designers to bid on your logo modelâ. What you got was designers putting $5 of effort into a $200 logo project once they calculated the risk of their effort against the chances of winning the competition. What the client got for $200 was a ton of crappy $5 logo submissions. They soon changed their business model.
Using gamification and competition as an incentive model is incredibly hard to get right and fraught with issues of moral hazard. The model you are proposing is just about the worst I have seen.
What do you really think the MaidSafe network will get by incentivizing devs with miniscule budgets to which they only get paid if they are first to submit? Sounds like a recipe for getting a collection of the crappiest software the Internet has to offer.
Race to the bottom business models are never sustainable because they eat the very people that are needed to keep it running. Like all winner take all economic systems, eventual failure is baked in.
Much of the open source community bridges the gift economy with the capitalist economy. Many open source contributers are not always looking for monetary rewards. In âPredictably Irrationalâ, the noted behavioral economist Dan Arielly did an interesting experiment. He asked people walking by to help him move a counch off a truck. Some people were asked as a favor, some for a small fee. Many more people agreed when askes to do it for free. As soon as a reward was offered people put the request into the context of their economic self-worth - the payment was too small so they passed. When asked to do it as a favor, they felt a benefit from altruism.
Short answer - a ârace to the bottomâ incentive wonât produce the result you are promising.
You seem to be viewing this as a âforeverâ thing.
If when I was a student and living off 600$ for the year I would have jumped at a small couple of hour program task on the PDP10 and be paid a pauper amount for it. I knew the OS, the CPU and could do wonders with 100 lines of assembler.
The idea is that I had little and a little more helped a lot and only took a small amount of time I would have spent studying my CS electives. The program would have been a study lesson anyhow. Obviously I would choose tasks that both helped my study and gave me some pocket change.
Now as a 4 decade engineering professional, I am unlikely to even look at it. Except maybe if I was starting out in SAFE APP programming, then I get paid a little for my learning. Being mostly retired it helps a little and I learn something.
BUT for the majority then yes they will simply bypass this form of being paid for programming and as you say this may not last forever as a viable form of paying for APP programming. But why not do it for those who may benefit from being paid for their spare time programming. I doubt you will see major projects being paid 25$ for it.
You asked for feedback on your proposal, I gave it. I followed up by trying to articulate my critique with both specific examples and references.
I donât expect that you need to agree with me, but your responses have been limited to denial without any substantive argument or evidence, making faces at me, a hostile and defensive attitude, and then over-the-top drama. How in any way did what I suggest imply âLetâs give up and do nothingâ? In fact, I did make alternative suggestions on how I think you could improve this proposal.
My intention is never to troll anyone personally - only to debate ideas. However, I have found your responses to be juvenile and immature.
Good luck with your initiative. The wonderful freedom of the Internet is a laboratory, as I expect Safe Network to continue that trend. Everyone is free to conduct their own experiments, and pursue their passions according to their own values. Clearly, your values are not my values.
I would not support this proposal as an investor, a community member, or a developer. Now, I am no longer interested in supporting anything you are associated with.
Long term project.
This model could also be replicated by @frabrunelle, @hunterlester, myself, and anyone else running a MaidSafe Meeting / Pod, because they could meet some min requirements like 5 entrants submitting open-source SAFE Apps, and then BAM they get $50 or $100 etc to give as a prize for their 1st place! Could help SAFE spread globally!
. a lot of them are complicated and involve weeks of work for the MaidSafe devs. Just to keep it simple and focus on Web Aps hereâs a little idea I would like to propose.
at all?