Cooperative internet movement (eg decentralising Uber, Airbnb type services)

@nicklambert Something for MaidSafe to attend? Or anyone affiliated. Sounds like a great place to talk with potential app builders, users, supporters etc and timing looks good!

A coming-out party for the cooperative Internet.

New York, 13,14 November 2015
The New School University Center, 65 5th Avenue, New York, NY 10003
Friday, November 13, 2015 at 8:00 AM - Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 10:00 PM (EST)


Definitely. Someone needs to let this group know about SAFE’s innovation or at least make them aware of it. It will facilitate the convergence of similar ideas and technology. Awesome to see academics thinking the same thing as SAFE.


I think they’ve been thinking about it for a while unless the are at a Koch captured institution where academic freedom has been eliminated.

We need cooperatives where all the silly management functions have been automated or eliminated. This is the way to be free of the slave based economy finally and its finally a way to access more of the fruits of automation /innovation.

I think you should attend and tell them. :wink:

I hadn’t heard of this before. If I can make it (doubtful, but hopeful), I will.

Really sounds like a job for Paige, though. She could be an official rep for MaidSafe.


Yeah most of these are in the SAFE apps site already :smiley:



No management functions have been automated or eliminated.

Pipe dream. It hasn’t happened yet, and it is doubtful it ever will happen aside from rather rudimentary decisions.

Keep dreaming. Keep dreaming. But you look like a fool when you pretend that science fiction is reality. It isn’t, and will not be for a very long time.

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@jreighly Except for iCEO and other products going through testing slated to be released. People are fed up with wanna be Captain Kirks who aren’t better than magic eight balls. The point of a cooperative is to be free of having people trying to tell you what to do over money and being pimped out over money. Instead of useless MIS its simply cooperative information systems.

What I think you’re not understanding is enriching parasites and efficiency and effectiveness and profit rhetoric is falling by the way side finally. Profit maximization for disconnected parasites is not what matters and even it it did hyper unionized BMW is trouncing the profit maximizer big three and its coming out of a total wefare state German economy. Again average wage of a BMW worker compensation included is $67 an hour- double GM’s, with double the revenue and double the still questionable profit, with worker input by law at every decision. 2 months off a year 4 day 28hr work weeks, single payor full coverage unemployment 5 years no questions, cat make you take jobs you don’t want, intact retirements… on and on when the loser money and market first US system is tanking. But I am saying we can do better than that with simple flat cooperatives.

You who have a career spent apparently undermining cooperatives by watering them down with corporate philosophy and features can’t see the writing.

You don’t know me or my customers.

You are way out of line.

I live in reality. You live in fantasyland. Don’t smear me.

And good luck with those products succeeding. You need leaders to do things like “Switch to rust” Machines will not do that. They may work fine for boring ordinary things, but that isnt’ the world anyone wants to live in.

New York City

kek. Why there? Nobody should go to NYC for crypto currencies especially after the nyc regulations.

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And the guy who switched to rust runs his firm like a cooperative, the very much non corporatist kind. Why don’t you comment on iCEO. High frequency trading firms even have their trading software write and release pressess releases in response to other Harlequin like releases. We can magic eight ball the petty tyrants. What a suprise to have democracy marry a modern Lotus note and boot the useless elitests.

Every co-op I have worked with (And it is a fairly good sample) Either has a strong leader that runs his business like business, makes bold decisions with a “My way or the Highway” implication eventually attached to them Or they are the kind of co-op that you describe where everyone is peacefully doing their jobs until market squashes them like a bug.

Once the 7 Million dollars is gone, I suspect MaidSAFE will be no different. Hard decisions must be made, and not everyone is going to like it. It probably isn’t that different now, If I where to venture a guess…

You can live in your science fiction romance. I am living in the reality everyday, and I think your hope is a bit optimistic.

Except that business bs is not reality its the remnants of monarchy, the plantation and slavery.

Where are the silly ass hard decisions in Norway and Sweden etc. Those are still top down but infinetly better than the Koch delusion that wants to get rid of the middle class.

I think you shove a lot of words into Koch’s mouth that never emerged from them.

From what I can see they are typical libertarian/anarchists for the most part.

You wouldn’t get that if you listened to the sponsored media though.

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I see your point but even when you listen to Econ Talk with Russel Roberts who is a Libertarian who is a really phenomenal interviewer I can still get the Cato and Mercator flavor. But Russ comes off as honest, completely motivated to seek the truth, willing to admit mistakes and always actually seems to fully read the author’s he invites on actual work. He interviews like Tamy Simon of Sounds True e. But I’ve seen his perspective shift over time.

Maybe you can take these discussions to a new thread, we’re losing focus on the OP.


I am a big believer in cooperatives distributing power, while retaining democratic processes. Wherever there is a natural monopoly (read: domination of a natural resource), cooperatives present a decentralised way forward.

Ofc, that doesn’t mean every organisation needs to be a cooperative. I suspect the majority of cases benefit from a more traditional company format (efficiency, direction, etc)

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Ok, back to the subject of the cooperative net and why it and this conference series is so wonderful.

That traditional format may have been a benefit in the past where we kept thinking about efficiency and effectiveness in terms of the stated mission of a given organization. But I think the time has come when we start to realize that above all else we need power sharing and respectful non dominating non coercive relations in all of our relationships and in all of our pursuits. That means the nature of work has to change. It means that we we don’t have it at work everywhere we won’t have it anywhere.

We can’t appeal to the sweatshop or the plantation or the traditional corporation anymore. There is an externality cost and stability cost that is no longer acceptable. A iPhone made in a Foxconn sweatshop may be a superior product but better products with technology down the road will be available without the sweatshop or the concentration camp. Surviving is going to mean living our ideals, they turn out to be necessities. We have to simply bar and replace the non democratic and situations where human beings are being treated under the principles of animal husbandry, constantly measured and extracted from and used up. That means in so many cases for profit motivation is an aggravation to a crime, or really that is what it has to be.

Regardless, these coming conventions are super exciting and seem like the right way forward. This was the answer the people at OWS were looking for and so NY is a fine setting. And in terms of efficiency and effectiveness in society there is so much we don’t need and can scrap including bosses, supervisors, managers, executives, boards, stock holders, corporations and business first philosophies and mentalities. These things will lose their respect and acknowledgement as they should have long ago. Besides we could have always been announcing. quality of life and standard of living scales instead of GDP/GNP and DJIA.

In the US I’d like to see a million green cooperatives that cut cords, harden and decentralize. Like to see that everywhere. Its becoming clear that corporatization is the story of centralization and that story is too subject not only to abusive power relations that can’t be maintained and are actually unstable (work place violence, sabotage, terror etc.) but are also brittle and unstable with regard to accumulation and concentration effects and outlier or long tail events. We have search and we have networks, it will be a network of cooperatives.

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Travis Kalanick has a net worth of 8 billion dollars.

AirBNB’s founders a billion and a half each.

I don’t think this is the revolution that is what @warren thinks it is.

And that is probably a good thing.

Its an over reward and in the context of prior decades and it may be partly the result of allowing wealth creation from non constructive or destructive activities so we get an overreaction when someone does something more constructive. But its also investment money and not people putting that money directly into their own lives so its not really the measure of success we’d like at this point.

It seems like when we go in the right direction the concerns of both the right and left alleviate or disappear. On the right is the concern independence and a society with a lot of cooperatives can provide a lot of cord cutting for independence. On the left is the concern for interdependence which is a theme in life that we never get away from as its an expression of family and our physical condition in infancy and old age. The right sort of cooperative localized economy could fill our lives with something almost more tribal where we have many more face to face direct developed relationships instead of our time and relationships being taken up with decisive one way media which isolates and dis-empowers us.

This goes back to what anthropologists have said about us being born for most of our history into tribal families of roughly a hundred and without hierarchy. Born into a flat group of tight relationships of a hundred or so. Its a bit like a village or a small town. Tech to cut the water cord, the power cord, the com cord, the agro cord, the transport cord, the bank cord, the school cord, the drug cord (micro biome) its all becoming available. And it cuts the cord on the state as well.

Notice crucially that cooperatives that are worker controlled as opposed to management control, even where management are basically at will employees and the workers are the owners, even this really doesn’t make the change. It really has to completely worker controlled.

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Imagine if Travis Kalanick or AirBNB founders set up a DAO first and had a computer enforce those social-profit contracts for distributing the wealth back into the community that does the work (Includes me, I AirBNB).

This rise in Uber, AirBNB like corporations is good for everyone. It only makes @Warren arguments even more relevant. At least these companies are showing average people, like me, that they can build a sustainable life on their own; for example my mortgage is paid by AirBNB by sharing a portion of my home. It will only make it easier to show these smart young workers/creators they can keep the control over their company(not handing over to people that invent imaginary numbers of being “worth 8 billion dollars”) When you really think about it money is worthless and the “management” types are the only ones who benefit (control, power, not contribute) from peoples obsession with it.

I will gladly trade the 8 billion they might some day say about me, for a company I started that changed the world in a good way by making sure all the people in the village saw their earned return on their personal sweat equity investment.