Tried to do a little community work with emailing Bittrex, would love for them to add MAID back for their US users, I would even buy some more at sub 10 cents to try to support the volume a tad… maybe if we got the active SAFE community here to all tweet on something with 60+ replies or such they would listen? Not sure the best way to get the majority involved on this forum to help, maybe through a footer note at the bottom of a dev update, feels like the wrong medium but those posts I think get the highest views from our active user base every thurs.
Jeremy
Aug 19, 2020, 4:40 PM PDT
You used to offer the only token I cared about as a US user but then Bittrex removed it without explanation. Can it be re-reviewed and added back? Then I will resume using this site.
Aaron Turnbolt (Bittrex Support)
Aug 19, 2020, 10:30 PM PDT
Hi there,
Thanks for the request.
Our policy is to not comment on whether we will launch coins but we only add coins under active development with high community demand. Please encourage the development team to Submit a request for this coin if they have not already.
We list coins based on numerous factors such as social media, coin distribution, coin network health, development, volume on other exchanges, among other things.
Follow us on Twitter @bittrexexchange and tweet about how much you like this coin and Bittrex.
Best Regards,
Aaron Turnbolt @ Bittrex
Follow us on Twitter @ https://twitter.com/BittrexExchange
@mav had some good token analytics we might be able to throw at them to explain where we are with volume and user demand, also a large tweet group of us saying we want it and ways to show active development may help(maybe compile links of the last 10+ weekly dev updates?). Ofc also having someone from MaidSafe submit the coin over again would be necessary too, I looked at the fill form, takes about 30-60 mins of effort probably to fill it out with good detail.
But you know about the US SEC securities law? It is out of there hands until Safe becomes a utility coin. Probably better to mail US gov or SEC.
The response you got from Bittrex was a standard form response from a gatekeeper that can’t say anything on why MAID is not listen. MAID was remowed when SEC turned up the heat on tokens as securities.
Its a case that have already said a utility coin, is out of their hands
That is say a in game token, and tokens like safecoin to purchase network functionality (storage/messaging/communications/etc) and no ownership of the network/anything is in the coins either. And that is with the knowledge people will trade it. There is no promise of future profits and all the typical things that are properties of a security.
If a coin don’t have a current use then it is seen as a security and just for speculation or raising funds. The coins needs to be used for buying storage on the network, that will make them utility and not security.
How can a non-existent thing be a security. safe coin does not exist? So surely we would be talking when it does and then its a utility coin.
MAID is not a security either, it is merely a token to be exchanged for safe coin when it come. Just like in game and network pre-purchase tokens are not security.
If you say its a security then I need to see where the SEC has overturned guidelines it published
Right now you can’t do anything with MAID on the future released network, so it has no current “utility”. The tokens future use case is not enough to give it “utility” status, from what I understand. It needs to have a current use case besides speculative trading or raising funds.
How is that different to network and game pre-purchase tokens that also are not securities. And the future SAFE network is a network.
Anyhow it has never been picked up by SEC as a security, it does not pass any guidelines by SEC to be a security, and listening to the analysis by a previous SEC auditor discussing what requirements are needed for a coin to be considered a security and in none of those does MAID come close.
This is why I need to see a guideline or ruling by the SEC that overturns its previous guidelines.
It does not represent ownership or share in any entity, no promise of any profits or income or such thing. No residual or earnings of any kind. Basically its not a security or holder of value, and not represented as such.
Now of course the SEC can change its guidelines or previous decisions but to date I have not heard of any.
Then its not a USA thing anyhow so they have no control over it anyhow.
Also many coins traded are not considered by the SEC as securities after investigation as well.
I retract my previous statements and claims on this questions.
When reading more about it seems we could claim MAID as a utility proxy token. It might be possible to fill in an application form stating that MAID passes as a utility. It seems to pass the Howey test and a future utility use case seems to be enough, from what have read in articles. Might need some juridical guidance, just in case, but this could/should open for US markets again.
@Birdinc1 might know about this and how things work. @dirvine do you know if MAID is considered “utility” status?
I don’t Governments seem all over the place and likely right now to declare everything a security or property. I suspect case by case & appeals is the route forward. i.e. a load of work and big lawyer bills per country.
Hopefully some will know more though, this is all guesswork from me, but after working with HMRC here they have a scatter-gun approach.
What I’ve seen of HMRC does not look well reasoned… fumbling in the dark and a liability to engage with the way the Dec 2019 guidance stands. Quite stressful thinking about the risk of their wrong perception and having to force fix it for them… standing problem with government and innovation perhaps.
Yes it’s quite a horrific situation, if you dare get an airdrop or mine for instance and the price drops, you are in deep deep trouble. If you give any coins away, you are in deep trouble. It’s quite incredible, the gov of BOE has said be ready to lose your bitcoins and I feel they are really trying to make life so difficult that anything related to crypto is a huge red flag. It’s a real shame as the UK needs cash right now and allowing folk to get crypto and realise profits on sale or exchange for goods/services would bring in so much. Yea pay tax when you get something in return, that makes sense. But right now (and this is where they are happening me) it’s when you get nothing in return that they don’t care, you need to pay tax as though you sold at the price on coinmarketcap or similar. So low liquidity does not matter, they use the headline price of the day. It’s a real headache and anyone who has been generous is looking at a huge bill and possible bankruptcy.
If cryptoassets are given away to another person who is not a spouse or civil partner, the individual must work out the pound sterling value of what has been given away. For Capital Gains Tax purposes the individual is treated as having received that amount of pound sterling even if they did not actually receive anything.
They really need to start taxing as a % of the crypto asset, that way they can take part in the market. I assume they would then sell the crypto and put downward pressure on prices.
Taking the headline price… do they take in to account the volume? What if someone sold 1 maidsafe for £1000 that day, suddenly a gift of 1000 maidsafe is taxed at a very unrealistic value.
It is a trap… I don’t think the buy/sell market of crypto could sustain everyone selling crypto to gather fiat funds to pay the tax.
I’m not giving away maidsafe, I am giving away the knowledge at the moment and helping people understand the buying process. They then go off and decide how much to invest. The largest barrier is setting up a wallet, understanding what the blockchain is and where an omni asset fits in to it all.
Once we launch, and if we have unimaginable price rises I’ll be handing out farming rigs and not safecoin.
The current cheap price is helping new accumulators.
If somebody behaves unreasonably, it is not unreasonable to resist them.
They should offer option to draw a line under the past… an a simple to engage option on 20% CGT at the boundary between crypto and fiat. What they’ve setup is a trap that doesn’t acknowledge or try to understand the reality of the early days of crypto where value was being resolved by volitile markets that had no regard for real spendable value. If they want to kill innovation going forward, then hammering each transaction is the way to go but I care not for risk of retroactive non-obvious b.s. they are trying to throw.
With hmrc the usd to gbp can be converted at a yearly set average.
So possibly an avg over the year could apply to maid to btc, I have had accountants tell me this is the way to do it.
I’m not an accountant though, so I tend to trust they know what they’re doing.
It would be case and country specific. Many exchanges require projects to procure legal opinions stating that the coin is not a security but also many exchanges do not require this.
Well do we have any lawyer friends in the MaidSafe forum that would be willing to give their legal opinion on the status of our coin ? Or a friend of a friend hah.
As you and @dirvine stated it seems like it similar to many other areas, a jungle that takes alot of resources and money to navigate.
I’am thinking if there are any solutions that could be just good enough. I have read some of the application form, when suggested to Nick Lambert a few years ago to apply to Bittrex Global. Even on the Bittrex Global application form I remember them asking if the token was compliant with US security regulation.
When the application was made to Bittrex Global it had to invole a Malta VFA (Virtual Financial Asset) license. I wonder if there maybe anything in that VFA license that could be used when applying to other exchanges. I’am just trying to ponder on if there could be anything that could open some doors.
Bittrex global has MAID listed right? It’s only for the Bittrex US folk like me who have lost access to the token. I can circumvent by getting buddies to buy on my behalf but ideally we want an exchange that provides easy access for US users too. Not sure if they have two totally separate business units like Binanace does. Would be nice to get that legal opinion to throw around at exchanges we want re-listings on for US users (if it is indeed true of course, I am no expert here).
? Or a friend of a friend hah.