Do you have a crystal ball? I don’t know what the price will do (because markets are unpredictable), but I can say - using logic, that the value of newly minted tokens takes it value from existing token holders, this is econ 101. Let’s not pretend otherwise.
Sure, but we have a mechanism that ensures we will always have enough nodes (and so storage) to meet demand. We don’t need any additional incentives. Further such additional incentives only make it more difficult for the market to decide how to value the network and the token.
Just my opinion, but I think currently Autonomi need more users, not more noderunners…
There are plenty of “producers” but not many “consumers” and that is not doing good for the business
Second hand lenovo m900. Price ranges between GBP 60 and GBP 300.
I’m donating about 2TB which is the max I have managed to squeeze out of this machine.
The question buy tokens vs mine tokens. In bitcoin it looks like buying may have been the better option.
With autonomi being a consumable token I think this is going to be different medium to long term.
At this point in the project I am going both, mining and buying.
Exactly. There is nothing wrong in trying to maximize your short term profit within the current framework.
It’s a separate question if that framework is good for the network in short and long term.
One good thing is, that the framework seems fair in my opinion. One node earns the same whether you run just 1 or 100 000. (The costs of running the nodes is external to the network and should be left to each individual running those nodes.)
If the random rewards now are too high… Maybe, but it’s very early, and I’d say experimental, phase. I wish, and believe that the Maidsafe follows the situation and adjusts if necessary.
I think that whatever the payouts per month, be it thousands, or millions, need to be weighed against the demand, and getting that up is more important. Or, to say it differently, if we get the network working properly and some good use for it, I think the demand for the coin will come.
In the last 3 days I’ve earned about 133 ANT from a non-maxxed out VPS that costs me €44 / month.
So, in 5 days or so it’d break even and the rest would be profit.
But, The amount being earned is falling as the market soaks up the tokens, and the acceleration of nodes will fall as this continues.
I agree. I want to see a true market and supply demand in balance… while I know demand isn’t likely ahead of better UX, this situation doesn’t seem beneficial from my limited perspective.
It’s a dilution of everyone’s tokens that a few people running big operations will benefit from, and it provides no value to the network. Pure waste in my view.
It is a centraling force, as a few big players will respond to a big honeypot vs a gradual emergence of an army of small nodes that would come from more organic, balanced network growth… but that market emerging will be delayed by this kind of incentive.
I agree that it presents a good buying opportunity for those with a long-term perspective though. No harm done long term, even if it’s a bit damaging & wasteful in the short term
Of course there may be a big benefit I can’t see to do with having a huge network of empty nodes that is clear to the team, so we’ll see what they say about the reasoning for incentivising it.
This is where the spirit of autonomi is, imo. Even better if you can run a few nodes on a machine you already have/use. Using unmetered broadband, with solar panels you already own, more so. It’s all about using spare capacity.
Data centres are always going to have to compete with those running cheap nodes at the margin. Indeed, we want that in order to discourage centralisation.
If folks want to buy shiny new gear and treat hosting like a centralised server, I suspect they will struggle to turn a profit.
Being and OG i’m here to support the network. I could buy 730 tokens but its not too much fun.
I think what I am trying to get at with my above calculation is my friends with existing machines can now run them, support the project, and have free use of their laptop.
I don’t mind, as I’m not milking it, and it’s a recipe used by many others; Hetzner server auctions.
I’ll say it out loud so that hopefully a few more small players can milk it vs leaving it to a few big players to get all the cheap ANT
If I were setting up more now, I’d probably go for a 6 core CPU with 8-16tb of hard drive space, 64gb RAM, and try 800 nodes on it (would at least do 6-700 I expect). These are currently available for about $50 / month.
Just one more thing, because maybe I’m missing something. But isn’t emission already down from what it was before we went live? the lottery incentive is now gone, right? That was 50k tokens a day, resulting in ~ 1.5 mil a month and was highly centralized. From what I’m hearing here it’s now down to 1 million a month. Right?
Yes, I’ve seen a rapid drop off, which I expect is in-line with the number of nodes increasing rapidly, effectively dividing the fixed rewards between more nodes.
Another thing I’ve noticed is the CPU usage rising rapidly, so it may soon be that I need to reduce node count per machine if this keeps increasing.
No idea. Not sure if there’s more actual network activity, or if it’s something else causing CPU usage to rise.
Maybe there’s a good reason for having this occur? I can’t see it, but it may exist.
But it does clearly show that supply of nodes is highly responsive to incentives, such as any increases in demand that would start to increase the fullness of nodes, pushing rewards upwards. This is a useful bit of knowledge to have about how the economy for Autonomi will function.
I think it also highlights the flawed thinking shown in the docs about the nature of supply in the Autonomi:
Physical infrastructure-based decentralized platforms require upfront infrastructure availability before usage can scale. This not only applies to the DePIN projects, but also to cloud providers such as AWS and GCP. To support node network growth, there will be early emission incentives for node operators (please see ‘Emissions Incentives’)
Nothing is needed upfront; all that’s needed is demand, which would provide the incentive for nodes to meet that demand. And they will meet it rapidly.
Anyway, I’ve harped on about a pure market being sufficient & emissions causing imbalances so much in the past, so I won’t go on about it much more.
