$1 Email! is the Network Out of it's Mind?

[Krekc]

@Seneca

So in short: The farming rewards are balanced with a target of 33% free space available. If there’s less than that available, farming rewards will rise, if there’s more, it will fall. The current plan is to make the amount of MB you get per SafeCoin directly dependent on the farming rate, by a simple formula. There are multiple problems with the current formula as some have pointed out, and the RFC itself mentions there are drawbacks to it and that a better model might be designed. I personally think we need to derive a SafeCoin supply target first somehow, and then balance the PUT costs to strive for that target. But I could and probably will at some point make a very long post about that.

You mention 33% free space available, what do you mean by that? Is 33% of all space provided by network participants available as free space for other people to use? Or is this 33% related to something else? I mean I can’t seem to find any information about users getting free space in the documents you posted.

Maybe I’m getting a bit off-topic here, but if when the network is up I want to join the network as a new user will I be able to do anything that requires me to write data (store some files, send an email, etc) without getting any Safecoin? Or can I only read data from the network and as soon as I want to write anything I need to get Safecoin either by exchanging another currency for it or share resources and farm the coins myself?

[Seneca]

@Krekc

You mention 33% free space available, what do you mean by that? Is 33% of all space provided by network participants available as free space for other people to use? Or is this 33% related to something else? I mean I can’t seem to find any information about users getting free space in the documents you posted.

Free as in not in use, not as in gratis.

@Krekc

Or can I only read data from the network and as soon as I want to write anything I need to get Safecoin either by exchanging another currency for it or share resources and farm the coins myself?

This.

[Krekc]

Thanks for the answers Seneca. I’m a little disappointed to find out that people will be restricted to “read rights” when joining the network and will have to pay (either hard cash or farming) to get “write rights”.

That doesn’t bode well for mass adoption if you ask me, but I may be wrong about that of course. In my experience people will only move when things are easy and not restrictive. Being able to read but not write is restrictive and will dis-encourage new users from joining the network.

[Seneca]

The hope is that farming will give a few SafeCoins relatively quickly. Other than that, I think we as a community should make it a habit that if we introduce anyone to SAFE, we give them a few initial SafeCoins so they can get started immediately.

I also think that many new users will come mainly for farming (free money you know!) initially, and only later start uploading their content.

[Luke]

It is free, if you contribute some of your hard drive space first. The thing people might be a little frustrated with is not being able to store lots of data until they either farm lots, or buy safecoin from an exchange.

In terms of adoption and how that will be affected by the economics of the network, I think there may well be a upswing when people realise en masse that if they farm with unused space on their hard drive they actually get paid!

[Seneca]

@Luke

The thing people might be a little frustrated with is not being able to store lots of data until they either farm lots, or buy safecoin from an exchange.

Then I’d hope SAFE will be an effective cure for their unrealistic expectations of the world. There’s no such thing as a free lunch, if something is “free” on the internet, we usually pay with our privacy. Here our privacy is protected, so we’ll have to offer something else.

[Krekc]

@Luke

It is free, if you contribute some of your hard drive space first.

What if you have (almost) no space to contribute. Like for example some poor kid in Africa on a laptop with very little resources, perhaps having to share those resources with other users of the same laptop?

@Seneca

Then I’d hope SAFE will be an effective cure for their unrealistic expectations of the world. There’s no such thing as a free lunch, if something is “free” on the internet, we usually pay with our privacy. Here our privacy is protected, so we’ll have to offer something else.

You’re right, but most people just don’t care about that. Privacy is hard to obtain on the current net. Safe aims to make it easily accessible, great. Then users find out that even though it’s easily accessible they now have to pay for stuff they used to get for free. Most of them will just stick with the “free” alternative they are using now.

[happybeing]

It will be a barrier for some, but sharing some disk space in order to be able to backup your data or use secure messaging, or some other perceived value is not really much of a barrier.

This barrier can be very low indeed: accepting a suggested default in the installer:

Farming

Share of your disk with SAFE Network and earn Safecoin to pay for your use

Select MB to share:
150MB (Free space remaining 800MB)

[Ricmaric]

Check out ipfs.io thats what you’re looking for

[Seneca]

@Krekc

Like for example some poor kid in Africa on a laptop with very little resources, perhaps having to share those resources with other users of the same laptop?

I don’t think it’s viable to build charity into the core of the network without inviting destructive abuse. If we want to give the poorest access, we’ll have to set up charity programs to handle that manually.

[Luke]

@Krekc

Most of them will just stick with the “free” alternative they are using now.

I guess that depends on the priorities of the user in question. If you were living under an oppressive regime where free speech is technically difficult and potentially very dangerous then privacy and anonymity is something very valuable. The benefits of the network will look very different to different people. Also there are around 2 billion people currently hooked up so even if you’re right that most people currently don’t value their privacy, there will could still be 1% (20 million) that do.

In western countries, where perhaps there is more ambivalence to privacy, the continued data breaches, when they impact people directly will leave people looking for alternatives. just ask someone who used Ashley Maddison!

One last thing is to talk about is the benefits of the network, even if you don’t contribute to farming and this can’t store on the network - so just using the GET bit. You will still be able to stream every movie, song and book for free with no fear of prosecution from your ISP handing your data over to a court*. You’ll also be able to see things which your government is trying to shield you from, say for example, any criticism of the government

*For the record I’m not saying I agree with all content being free but that is a reality that will happen in quite short order I think as apps which perform this task will be the most data heavy (in terms of gets) so will be most profitable to create. Hopefully in time tipping creators will be super easy (e.g. a like button which gives a safecoin to the creator)

[dirvine]

@Luke

Hopefully in time tipping creators will be super easy

Maybe more simple that you imagine, there is a pay the producer in an upcoming sprint that will introduce automatic creator tips. More later though, but watch this space. (look out for "pay the producer or ptp)

[Seneca]

And personal tips should also be very easy. After all, the currency is embedded in the network itself. Every account will have a SafeCoin address, most people will consistently have a reserve of SafeCoins, and transactions are nearly instant without any hassle.

[upstate]

[BenMS]

not really, it’s binary based so we have 2^32 (4.294.967.296) safecoins or 2* 2^32 (8.589.934.592) safecoins

[digipl]

It seems we are forgetting that, in the early years, will be created, and distributed, over 3 billion new Safecoin between all those who made a little work for the network.

Those new Safecoin implies, primarily, a distribution of the wealth, generated by the network, between those who help their growth.

[Ricmaric]

I wonder if streaming apps will be restricted to a certain number of users just the right amount so to not to make stream cashed in memory

[BenMS]

I don’t think we are.

[Seneca]

I don’t think caching will be predictable like that. There are many factors that influence how long a chunk will stay in the cache of a particular vault, including the amount of memory the vault owner has reserved for caching. So this will be different for every vault.