Speculative markets will always fly over the fundamentals, @neo.
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Only by a certain amount with utility items. The market places a lot of pressure when you try to over inflate something that has real life value. Especially when this happens
Long before that happens people will farm the coins rather than pay outrageous prices
You mean, just like Gold? Haha (the price of gold is not supported by its utility)
I forgot about that factor, right, people would start to farm like crazy and increase the supply.
But that effect will take some time to reflect in the network, I guessā¦
Exactly like gold. It rose then market forces pulled it back.
But Gold is very much a speculative item (> 90% hoard/jewellery) and also a utility item (< 10% electronics)
That was the reason I sarcastically mentioned gold.
I only referred to it because it is not supported by its utility value. The SafeCoins can happen the same.
If SAFEcoin became a speculative altcoin then without the network, it fails. This would be a real bummer for the speculators 
That would be like all copies of the blockchain failing in relation to BTC
Thatās a strawman there.
I never said that SafeCoin will be a valueless shitcoin.
I said that the market value can be hovering over its fundamentals, in the same way that gold.
I donāt want safecoin to be linked to bitcoin. Itās my first fear vs other crypto-coin. I want to buy safecoin directly without bitcoin. The other fear I have is I think the price started too high so all investor is going to lose after the release. But I would like to see study that tell why the price started at that.
Yea I re-read your 5 points again and I see that now. Sorry 
Wasnāt trying for strawman, but pointing out an extreme case that could occur if SAFEcoin became mostly speculative. The network needs people to use it.
Did anyone imply differently.
I too do not want it linked and as far as I know the safex will provide a multitude of options in the end and one would be SAFEcoin <ā> BTC
Noā¦ Just my worst fear.
so basically everything will be Al Wright in the end
Depends for whom! ā¦
The price was set by the developers for a crowdsale that was more than a year ago and dollar wise it is the same today as it was then (btc was ~600) so 1Safecoin = 1MB doesnāt make sense to meā¦
Watch out! People got into mental hospital after doing that
There is a value at which the network starts. So letās say Safecoin starts at $1 and you need 1 Safecoin to create an account. The Farming Reward is 1 Safecoin for 1000 Chunks of 1 MB. So when you send an email, you only pay for the cost for that little piece of data. It wouldnāt surprise me if you could send 10.000 mails before you run out of Safecoin.
Wanna PUT some data to the network? Letās assume you can PUT 10.000 pieces of data for 1 Safecoin. So here you are, able to PUT data to the network, send emails all until you get your bill and the Safecoin is gone.
But now, the price of Safecoin goes to $2. Does everything becomes twice as expansive? No it doesnāt, because when you can Farm a couple of dollars a day worth of Safecoin, a lot of extra people will jump in and start to Farm. So now the Farming Reward goes down, because thereās way more free space available in the network than needed. So now you can farm a Safecoin after delivering 2000 Chunks of data. This means the price to PUT data will also become cheaper (thereās more supply of free space).
Thatās how I get it.
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Iāve read through this thread and must say it confuses me more than that it clears up the working of safecoin and the costs involved with using the network.
Apparantly thereās no easy explanation or no-one is able to give one here at least. This really worries me when it comes to āmainstreamā adoption of the SAFE network. How are people that are not tech savvy supposed to āget in toā this network when the whole safecoin mechanism is this confusing?
I also thought using the SAFE network would be free. In this interview (http://maidsafe.net/article-sovryn-tech-interview) David talks about having kids in Africa log in and having all this space available for free. Maybe heās talking about it as a hypothetical, but from what I read in this thread thatās not going to happen if you have to pay safecoin even to send something basic like an email. How would they even get these safecoin if they are using a laptop with (almost) no resources to share?
Am I the only one thatās not getting it? Is there a clear explanation for how this is going to work?
Here, the descriptions of the mechanisms. First thing to note is that neither mechanisms are likely to be permanent, their workings will be tested in the upcoming test nets and then likely improved or replaced.
https://github.com/maidsafe/safe_vault/blob/master/docs/safecoin_farming_rate.md
https://github.com/maidsafe/rfcs/blob/master/agreed/0005-balance_network_resources.md
So in short: The farming rewards are balanced with a target of 33% free space available. If thereās less than that available, farming rewards will rise, if thereās more, it will fall. The current plan is to make the amount of MB you get per SafeCoin directly dependent on the farming rate, by a simple formula. There are multiple problems with the current formula as some have pointed out, and the RFC itself mentions there are drawbacks to it and that a better model might be designed. I personally think we need to derive a SafeCoin supply target first somehow, and then balance the PUT costs to strive for that target. But I could and probably will at some point make a very long post about that.
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Canāt wait for that one. Imagine 10 million users in SAFE in 312500 groups. Quite hard to always agree with all of them at once about how many coins should be created in a particular time. What I know is that for a Safecoin transaction something like 3 groups are involved. So all consensus should be in these 3 groups. If you want to cap the amount of Safecoin thatās farmed over x-hours, you need to have 3 groups reach consensus on time as well, and thereās no such thing like that right now.
I think that the 33% idea can work very well. AFAIK itās a bit like the difficulty in Bitcoin, although not very comparable at the same time. But the blocktime seems to be quite around 10 mins. in Bitcoin, even while the difficulty is only changed every 2 weeks (?). What is important to test are the different variables. So, youā're in a group of Vaults with 31 other peers and the free sprace goes to 34% because someone just added some GBās. How should the FR be changed? Exponentional? Lineair? I think thatās the real test.
Really nothing. The FR change with new PUTs so this free space only will influence the future not the present (And, with the actual formula, linear).
Itās not necessary, farming rate is also not exactly the same in every group, but the differences will be small and will even out. Groups can ask a number of other random groups to tell them their rates so they can adjust their own if itās too different from the others.
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