I am not so sure about this, if we take facebook/twitter etc. it’s all user created content. I imagine this will be the same on Safe. I don’t know the numbers today of user created verses business created though. It would be a good number to know though
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What I’m saying here is, how many regular consumers are going to be creating websites on Safe? Not many, I think. I consider consumers uploading data to facebook as B2B2C not B2C. In other words, a business has to create the social media platform. Who is going to create the decentralized social media platform(s) for Safe?
Even then, I think a lot of the data on social media platforms these days is generated by businesses or consumers acting like semi-businesses. Take the “Influencer Movement” of Instagram or Youtube, for example.
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This is also something I am not sure about. Pre DLT MaidSafe did investor presentations, 100% of these led to investment. We also went to Google to present to them, Vint Cerf took me to lunch as he thought the idea was pretty good.
What I mean was normal people “got it”, they understood the story, in short it was
“People have computers, they have free space. The free space we have is over 30 time more than Google has. We can use that space to create a new Internet without data centers, large corporates or government snooping.” … longer story happened. Most presentations were circa 4 hours on a whiteboard. The fact is that it worked and in an environment where investment was almost impossible.
That showed the person on the street could get the story. Of course it took me hours (most of the time) to explain it, but it worked.
Distilling that down to a clear message is not easy, but throw in DLT and the stories much more complex. I am not sure that complexity helps, at least I am not as convinced as others are.
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I think the proportion of those who build websites to those who read them should be similar to the proportion on the current web? (Interesting discussion to be had there though I admit).
I am not sure. In terms of views then I think you are more correct, but in terms of quantity, I suspect it’s just people.
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I agree with you, we all do otherwise we wouldn’t be here.
It is a matter of time and network economics that truly matter here.
I think it is a hard sell personally speaking with these messages, not impossible, nothing ever is, just harder to convince users unless it is done in a super targeted manner with super targeted messaging and in a timely manner which is somewhat out of our hands and is in the hands of the Gods.
Let me get this out the way first:
In a true step-by-step process you need farmers from the get-go.
And in fact per some of my previous posts the farmers will attract the users, they will be INCENTIVISED to do this. And in doing so it aids our efforts greatly.
If I as a farmer can earn some passive income by switching my computer on, clicking the Snet program on, that’s cool, whats cooler is if I am one of the very first people to do so (elder node?) and if I can get a lot more people uploading data my little passive income stream maybe turns into something more.
Remember: Money is an incentive so powerful, people give their lives for it and there are a lot of people earning a lot less money than you and I.
If I tell my friends “come to Snet, you can upload all your movies, games, videos and pictures, store it there, its easier and its yours for good” or better yet I tell my privacy-pilled friends “this is a data privacy network” and they do come, but then when they get there its super slow and klunky, unless they are really keen on it, they’ll just shrug their shoulders and go meh and move onto the next thing.
How many people right now do you think turn the Dogecoin core wallet on, realize nothing is happening because its gotta sync headers, connect to nodes and then friggin catch up 7 years worth of data and so they are turning it off after a day?
A lot!
Dogecoin has millions of users yet only 800 or so full nodes. This is ridiculous and although Dogecoins marketing efforts in attracting people are one of the best it loses many of these people because there is no utility and its slow. These people sell and exchange their tokens for the next thing.
You need the farmers (supply) first, the farmers allow the users to operate, not the other way around. The users (demand) already exist just not in our world, the farmers do not exist, they need to be created, you risk losing the demand the minute you invite it because there is no supply and the network sh*ts itself. How embarrassing would that be years and years of work only to lose people at the finish line because the network is slow.
I will admit this can be quickly fixed because of the reasons I have already laid out, money as incentive.
But it is something that needs to be done from the onset. Step 1.
Now assuming we get this right and lets say we attract hundreds of farmers, not hundreds of nodes but hundreds of farmers, maybe one thousand farmers, we are primed and ready to go, how do we achieve a flood of data?
How do we achieve this relationship you speak of?
I am currently listening to Matt Ridley’s How Innovation Works.
SUPER HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for all SNet nerds and especially the SNet marketing serfs.
One thing that is striking and should be obvious but isn’t always is that innovation happens mostly in the UNREGULATED domains and that is exactly the opposite of where the clearnet is going.
It’s going super regulated and has been for some years. ISP’s blocking domains, host’s blocking and banning companies, governments and politicians going after people, heck in Australia you can’t even buy a .com.au top level domain name without first having an Australian Business Number! We all know, no point discussing it here, we know.
Snet provides this new regulation free area but the ONE thing that makes us stand out head and shoulders in this NEW and UNREGULATED world is that we are literally creating and innovating DATA-ECONOMICS!
Data Economics has been ruled over by the Lords of the world wide web, the tech giants since its inception.
Now its coming to a computer near you!
This opportunity has never before existed.
The internet gave us the tools to communicate. Previously it was the printing presses, TV networks and radio stations that ruled these domains.
Now it is the Instagram’s and TickTocks.
We were given the ability to communicate and create…ahhh but so long as the algorithm liked what we were doing and of course we never owned the data, they did, they monetized it and gave us the measly scraps, sometimes those scraps equated to millions of dollars for select few people but for the most, it amounted to nothing.
Its the user-generated-content formula of them monetizing 100% of everything their users upload and yet only paying out to 20% or less. This is on he front end. On the back end they just sell it all!
Im using these examples because they’re easy to grasp.
But just for a second in your minds eye see a piece of data, a file, a photo, a bit of 1 or 0. Now this bit of data is valuable.
It might be 1c for the sake of grasping the analogy.
It has value.
What we are truly REALLY doing with SAFE among all of the fancy schmancy crypto and privacy MUMBO-JUMBO buzz wordery is we are giving people the keys to controlling that 1c of data! But it’s not just 1c, its hundreds of thousands and millions if not billions and trillions of them!
The users using the Bitcoin analogy now have the private keys to their own VALUABLE data. They decide!
They can pay and upload it to the network, they can receive in return for it or they can farm and earn.
Its an entire Data-Economics system that no one entity owns or controls!
We’re taking the key away from Lord Google, Facebook and Amazon and we’re giving it to the people.
What they do with it, and how the developers build on top of it we’ll have to wait to see what happens, but the mechanics of the network are there for us to do this. And we’re doing it.
Just like the Internet gave people the power to communicate and control some of their communication, or like how Bitcoin allowed people to be their own banks, we are now allowing people to be their own servers and control their own DATA Economics.
No more uploading your videos, photos, and audio to the lords and they decide what slice of your own data-value they give back to you if any at all, no! Now you decide how much you put in and how much you take out!
Like I said earlier I cannot get away from the fact MONEY is DIRECTLY tied to this network, it is inherent and we need to PUSH this. It is magical when you really think about it.
There is a reason people put solar fcking panels on their roof and i’ll give you a little tip, it’s not because they want to save the fcking environment!
Surveillance f*cking CAPITALISM!
Bitcoin gave you the keys to the bank.
The Internet gave you the keys to communication.
We’re giving you the keys to the server.
Sorry edited. Getting excited.
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You were talking to an informed audience of developers and investors. They are not representative of the average consumer.
I don’t think anything I’ve said disagrees with the above. This is about farming, which I agree the average user can get behind (because it’s passive and doesn’t require them to do any work). Creating and uploading content others would want to consume does require work. Interestingly enough (the data seems to indicate that people are more interested in using dApps than farming…). Consumer culture, I guess. What I’m saying here is that
- It’s likely that the most active uploaders of data to Safe are going to be active creators/producers rather than passive readers/consumers.
- A lot of data that more passive readers/consumers upload will probably come through the vehicle of dApps that developers create to run on the Network
Yes, with the number of builders being significantly smaller than the number of readers. There are 4.21B internet users but only 1.95B websites. Moreover, less than 400M websites are active. Those numbers include static, dynamic, e-commerce and other types of websites.
Even platforms like Wordpress that appear consumer-oriented, cater to business interests. ~40% of all websites are made on WordPress, including sites for companies like BBC, CNN & TIME.
The average person doesn’t post that much compared to the “Influencer”. How many normal people post pictures and videos or tweet more than once a day?
On a side note, the founder of Mint gave a presentation at my company today for “Innovation Day.” He talked about the importance of practicing deep empathy for the end-user. Safe end-users will be both consumers and businesses–and with this gig-economy world in which we now live, the lines between both of those groups continues to blur.
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As I said i am excited and feeling inspired and so i am rolling with it, I might use these ramblings as first drafts for posts on Hackernnoon.
So if you read what i wrote in the post above about DATA ECONOMICS and Snet giving you the keys to the server. Think about this for a second to comprehend the true capability of this idea.
Bitcoin is now worth $50k a pop.
Its worth that because they were the first to give people their own bank.
Facebook is worth what it is because it gave people the power of a printing press as did Twitter.
Youtube, gave people the power of cable TV.
Google gave people the library of Alexandria x 1000.
Now zoom out for a second and see all of the data centers on the planet, they are these little hubs, these silos, in actuality they are like bank vaults.
Controlled by a very few and this is precisely why these companies are worth what they are worth today.
Because they have the keys to those vaults and you don’t.
Some will say “oh but Apple makes phones”.
WRONG.
Apple makes real estate for the data to live on.
Just like McDonalds.
If we can take these simple yet powerful ideas that we are distilling here and give it to these users in a very small bite sized gum ball fashion that they just pop in their mouth, they can GET IT.
I think the Bitcoin and Internet analogies work.
I think the visual aspects of servers not just hosting data, but hosting value, data that is worth real-world money is potent as it is persuasive in the users mind.
We’re not going for different people here. I mean, I know we are, but we’re not.
We’re going for one person.
That person wants the same thing Bitcoin gave people, the ability to be their own bank.
This person wants what Carl Benz and Henry Ford gave people when they gave them the keys to be their own transport.
This is what SAFE is.
It is the ownership and control of the data center, the host and the server and with that comes the same power that Bitcoin and Ford and Google gave people.
This is super powerful.
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At Google, yes, but not to investors. These were ordinary folk, many not computer literate.
I suspect you mean “content == apps”. What I am saying is it won’t be. Apps will allow content creation but likely not create it themselves. Remember in Safe the data is yours and not the apps. So we should perhaps work on that a bit.
You are saying that a lot, but on what grounds? I think (please prove me wrong if I am) that most content on the Internet is user created. i.e. Facebook sells our data (not theirs), same with Google etc. even when their tools harvest our data as well as us posting data to them.
Good data.
I agree, but how many sites are businesses or created by businesses? I suspect similar to medium etc. I feel the user-created site will outnumber business created sites if we consider blogs as sites.
I am not sure I agree but I am sure there are numbers to tell us who is right. [edit what I mean here is for 1 influencer there’s 1000’s of normal users, so normal users will vastly outweigh the quantity of data influencers produce]
I agree with that. The line between self-employed/gig and a business is narrowing. I still feel the vast majority of data in social sites at least is user generated. As I say though conjecture is fine, numbers will let us know.
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I’ll disagree there. Anecdotally a vast majority of people I know posts everyday to social. I’m the black sheep as usual 
. I love my siblings but my sisters can have some “basic” behavior when it comes to social. This is common. People all over the world document their entire day, every day. Some people basically live online. Even we all socialize on here daily and that all would be paid PUTs and need to be stored. Plenty of data for farmers.
The fact that people could get PtD for getting visitors after publishing a site, I could see a “wall” template site being available for anyone to publish and then post to daily and another app that allows people to put in their site url and show their most recent posts etc like a timeline. That way people are getting PtD for just posting online all with no ads or data stolen.
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Waaaaah no one is reading my last two posts and the fate of the Universe depends on it
Do you mean bank of value (not money). So data bank? I like it, but we need to get people to understand the value in data, companies do but average users don’t, yet! I am 100% they will and are increasingly aware. They just don’t know we could give them their own data bank where they control their data, not companies, not apps and not governments.
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Ok Flash, I did 
we have 2 seconds to save the univer…
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A lot of important stuff here I think. Certainly a core selling point of SAFE. I had to laugh because I know one person who is very into green tech and invested heavily in solar. You are correct, though, that the economics are what ultimately drove the decision; the environmental benefit was a “fake because”.
To follow up more on this (and stealing a bit from earlier posts)… I think many are feeling trapped in their lot in life right now. Covid has suppressed the global economy, which was a little sketchy even before 2020. Lot’s of wealth inequality, etc. Big Tech gets wealthier no matter what happens at the working level. Not that motivated individuals can’t find opportunities, but it’s a real challenge. SAFE opens up an entirely new frontier for growth. I’m picturing (virtual) open lands for “farming” and new communities forming to buy/sell goods, town squares for socializing and communicating, etc. Without big brother watching, censoring, regulating, and punishing. This is a new direction and the market caps of Google, Apple, FB, etc. show there could be many trillions of dollars of potential opportunity. It’s a powerful vision.
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@goindeep i also always like the BYOB be your own bank not to be confused with bring your own beer. Data bank isn’t too bad. Could be a cool tag line if we could come up with something similar and catchy.
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Bank of data…valuable bank of data.
Correct, correct, correct.
And the truth to the matter is that people don’t always know what they want or need until you show them.
I had no idea I didn’t need my bank and that I could send you money directly from my computer to yours, but in 2013 when I found out my brain exploded! Its like anything, when you learn a new technology your world opens up. We’re literally opening peoples minds and their worlds with this technology.
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!
Data Economics was once in the control of the few, it is in your hands now.
This is the messaging we need to clean and refine but yes you got it!
We’re doing what all the other BIG companies and BIG innovators did before us only we’re doing it with data and servers.
Uber gave people the ability to have their own chauffeur driven limousine. Something just mere years ago was so out of reach and so unattainable to the masses. People would have thought you were insane or very eccentric if you told them in the 90’s that everyone in the future has their own driver and a selection of cars to choose from. But that is exactly what happened and once it happens that is it the network effect is ours.
We’re doing it with servers.
Servers that are currently controlled by Amazon (1.7 TRILLION), Google (787 BILLION), Apple (2 TRILLION), Facebook (527 BILLION)…we’re literally taking that $ value right there and re-distributing it the the people. these companies are being forced to relinquish some of that power and they don’t even know it, just like the Banks didn’t know it with Bitcoin.
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Again with the inspiration.
Just gonna go with it.
The one thing that has always frightened me and I think all of us as a whole, although we don’t talk about it much, maybe in the early days…was being labelled some weird dark net silk road type network. No one wants that. Yes it can be argued and fought but its better not to have that fight in the first place.
I think what we are distilling in this message now is that this whole anonymous, private blah blah blah doesn’t even necessarily need to come up with the user unless it has to.
using the Uber example again, they didn’t repeat and tell people constantly “You realize your taking the risk of driving around with someone we reeeeally don’t know, and we reeeeally don’t know anything about and there is a sliiiight chance they could be a serial killer”.
They didn’t do that. They sold the private chauffeur driven limousine.
Sure the developers, geeks, engineers and the like will seek this out. Is it private, is it encrypted, is it anonymous.
But if what we’re selling to the USERS are the keys to the server, the keys to their own VALUABLE DATA, the keys to Amazon and Google and Apple, the whole accusations of being a dark net or whatever may not even come up, because lets be honest, this is something the MSM and politicians will label us with and not random folks on forums.
And the great thing about the MSM and Politicians is that by the time they catch on the network effect has already happened.
We saw this in Australia with Uber.
They wanted to stop it but couldn’t because it had already taken hold and so what they did was regulated it a little and charged some fees.
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What I’m saying is that if Nigel creates a music player, that dApp would be a vehicle via which many people upload music (data) to the Network. The people who upload music won’t own JAMs (the app) but they will own the music (data) that they upload. If someone like Nigel doesn’t create such a dApp, that data wouldn’t get uploaded.
You’d think it’d be easy to find the following by platform: average user posts per day vs. influencer/business posts per day, but alas such numbers likely lurk behind a paywall somewhere. Anywho,
- 95 million photos and videos are shared on Instagram per day.
- There are over 25 million business profiles using Instagram
It’s unclear if that 25M business profiles includes influencers… Now the question becomes, does the average business account post more than once a day and how does the proportion of posts by average vs power users deviate by platform…
Anecdotally, I post to non-crypto twitter social media a few times a year, my brother posts never (not on social), one sister posts a million times a day it seems (because if it isn’t on Facebook did it ever really happen?), and the other sister posts to her personal account less than she does to her influencer account.
Also, we’ve kind of drifted from (static) website creation to social media posting, which I think are quite different classes of data. Additionally, can Safe support dynamic websites?
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This is how I kind of see this message: Its very rough.
There is a multi-trillion dollar industry most people are completely unaware of.
An industry made up of 1’s and 0’s.
An industry you could never before tap into.
Locked away, out of sight, out of reach.
Controlled by a handful of powerful people.
These people own a particular type of real estate that gives them this power.
And with it they attract a certain kind of very valuable data.
With this data and real estate combined they have God-like powers.
You know who they are.
SAFE gives you the keys to this special kind of real estate, this digital real estate.
And complete control over this highly sought after and valuable data type.
This has never been done before.
SAFE is giving you the same powers and capabilities that these few companies once had a monopoly over.
Servers and personal data.
You see in the modern world servers are digital real estate. And just like real estate, ownership of these large and powerful servers give these companies a very special kind of power that brings them untold riches.
Because they own and control the digital real estate, they can fill it with digital products. And do you know what that digital product is? Its your data.
It is your personal data, it is your mom’s data, your best friends data, your company’s data and even your pets data.
But how exactly does this work?
They offer you the ability to communicate, find information quickly and easily and even build an audience or customer base and in exchange they ask you to give them the data. This might be pictures you upload to Instagram, videos on TickTock, company files and documents on Google Drive or your website and app on Amazons servers.
When you do this they will either charge you for it directly or they will monetize your content and data by selling it to advertisers or placing their ads on top of your data and charging for clicks.
Its like stealing candy from a baby.
What SAFE does is take that power from them and gives it to you.
The exact same capability.
You will have limitless servers to do anything you can imagine with.
You can upload all of your movies, videos, music and photos accessible from anywhere on Earth, you could build world changing apps, create websites, video games, scale existing projects. The potential is unlimited.
You can farm the network, meaning that you become the server! And you get rewarded by SAFE for doing so. This is how SAFE works. It is distributed computing for this very reason.
If you are a creative type, you can upload content and charge for it directly on SAFE without anyone stealing and monetizing your content.
Or you can do all of it!
This industry and economy that these companies control is called the Data Industry or Data Economics.
Previously you had to go through them. there was no other choice. They were the sole controllers of it.
And all while they ripped you off, stole your data, surveilled you, sold your information to the highest bidder and did it with a smile on their face.
To use an analogy of what SAFE is doing.
Bitcoin gave users the keys to the bank. They gave them their Swiss private bank that fit inside of their phone in their pocket. They democratized banking. They gave these powers back to the people.
Uber gave you your own chauffeur driven limo. They made it so everyone could have it. Something only the rich and powerful could afford before. Now anyone, anywhere can call up their own private chauffeur and chose from any selection of vehicles driven to any place they desire.
Google gave you an instant library of information 1000 X the size of the library of Alexandria that previously only nations leaders and prophets had access to. Now anyone can search for any piece of information and find it in seconds.
SAFE is doing the exact same thing it is giving you the keys to the server. It is giving you something that only a select few people on the planet had before.
And its giving you control over your most valuable asset, your data.
You get to decide what you do with these servers and what you do with your data.
Some of you will build million dollar organisations, some of you will create and monetize new content, others will upload a lifes worth of photos and music that can never be lost, destroyed, stolen or spied on and of course some will act as farmers creating space on their computers and making this all possible while being rewarded for it directly.
SAFE is doing something that has never been done before and it will change and revolutionize this space forever. What you do with it is up to you.
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Yes this already blows away 99.9% of all other blockchain projects out there. And lets not forget the average internet user’s wish: one password to rule them all! Having but one password is a huge deal, in a world of burdened , password overkill.
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Lol, this is what I wanted to say but danced around it a bit. There’s a lot of those people though, like a lot but obviously that’s not everyone and I doubt it’s a majority. Either way you in general need an app for users to upload data whether it’s the SafeNetworkApp or Decorum or JAMS, they will give an interface to encourage people to upload and consume others data (that they own).
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