https://cointelegraph.com/news/edward-snowden-redacted-event-decentralization-solana
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first partnership announcement 
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" Your data is money. Own, save, exchange, invest, and even pay with data." - DrumWave Inc
Not sure if owndata.com is the other one as I don’t have an account on X, but it looks like another data is property grab.
Both are at odds with the ethos of the project IMO. I realise some here have no problem with any of this, but am amazed to see the project rotting before my eyes with these moves.
I also disagree that folk should sit on the very pertinent questions they have, and not enquire of these companies directly. We are given no reliable or credible information by the team, which means that’s not reasonable and they don’t respond usefully when we ask them.
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Yes that’s fine but dont “speak for the community” when doing so is my biggest gripe.
We were once an enormously welcoming community, hopefully all will be welcomed here regardless of if every one of them tick the decentralized box 100%.
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Agreed.
This appears to be asking people who are here for very particular reasons to shut up an not ask questions in case people can’t answer them positively.
The community has always asked such questions and if we’re partnering with people who don’t like explaining and answering, that reflects on them.
We can be ‘welcoming’ and ask questions, but tbh the fact it is harder for people here to do that is because the community was taken for granted, treated badly IMO, and continues to be sidelined. I really don’t think it is ok to treat us like mushrooms at any time, but especially if the team want us to cheer and support. I don’t think they care any more and have shifted to pleasing others, who are not aligned with the fundamentals and the result is what we see.
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Yeah I don’t disagree. A few months ago when we began to transition to go live mode I said I hope it doesn’t result in the little group we were splintering.
The bigger it gets the more that will happen I think.
I know that is not exactly what you mean but I do think the focus needed to shift and that leads to what you say above.
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Don’t you think it’s a step in the right direction for people to be able to own & control their own data, and consider monetising it on their terms vs letting Facebook / Google etc monetise it instead?
Sounds quite aligned with Autonomi to me.
In what sense is giving control of data to individuals against the ethos of Autonomi?
That has been a choice, the reasons for which haven’t been explained adequately, in fact hardly at all.
None of this was inevitable IMO, but is a consequence of prioritising things that really only matter if you have a capitalist mindset. As I mentioned earlier I see this from most in the decentralisation community. It’s a problem of awareness, stepping back and taking off the “They Live” glasses.
While most people will struggle to do that, the only way to help is to have these discussions.
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Nope. It is capitalism - monetisation over humanisation. Equating this with Autonomi now is fair, equating it with the fundamentals of the project is wrong IMO.
Maybe I’m an outlier in that, IDK. But the reason I support those fundamentals is to empower people not enable them to sell their precious autonomy (irony alert).
Like selling your attention, monetising your data is just another capitalist shell game.
It reminds me of when Zuck was telling everyone all he cared about is connecting the world. Maybe he believed that, then he got into bed with VCs. If you do that you may get to live on a private island, but you no longer have control of what happens to your baby. Same with Google and countless other well potentially well meaning founders.
What set David apart was his determination to avoid that, which has cost him dearly.
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noooooooo I dont want to upgrade again.
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The difference here Is we are on the brink of release. When the network is out then we have achieved our main goal. Then folk need to use the network and who and how does not affect the network goals. I am out of the loop on much, but that could not be helped, but I am into some code again, albeit a wee bit.
Getting the network up and running is massive, but getting folk using it will be even more so. I don’t think it will matter who does deals with who to get that, it does not change the network and that is a big issue here. The network is for everyone.
We need to be careful that even the team mentioning a company name leads to calls of betrayal etc. It makes life hard.
So I would say to everyone, relax in terms of the team getting out and about and trying to make relationships. I am sure some will fail and hope some work, but we cannot expect them to do things openly and stand still while we throw rocks at them, otherwise it’s say nothing and the forum has always been for me, say anything 
Recently I have seen changes and I would love them to reverse and for to calm down.
If I imagine I am not part of autonomi I would just want them to get the network used and as soon as possible, get it to grow.
My current goal is ensuring the API is working for devs to create their own apps and companies, of any kind and any format. I wish we could all just focus on getting this up and running as it was promised, fair free and open. Privacy security and freedom for all.
I am not interested in analysing who uses it for what, I am just keen anyone can and they are safe in doing so. From all angles
I really hope this comes across OK, and I hope you can see what I mean. It’s about the core, the foundation of what we build and launch, not business practices. I have always said maidsafe on success should destroy itself and if it does I think that can be good, however I don’t mean don’t pay folk out, that MUST happen, but it has to not be the controller of this network. Nobody should and that is the only way we can all be really and truly safe using it.
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With a successful network everyone will be able to use it for his own (level of) freedom 
Everyone using the network supports this goal and helps us bringing freedom and knowledge to the world! (even if they don’t know it and autonomi is just used in a deeply hidden api layer within proprietary software) time to welcome everyone seeing an opportunity in this network 
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Thanks for commenting David and I would be very happy if I saw this the same way you do.
The reality is that we are some way, IME a long way from a network that doesn’t need nurturing and developing towards the fundamentals. Whether that happens, will I believe very much depend on the company Autonomi keep, the businesses that use it and come to exert their influence. The community is no longer listened to in good faith, and we can see the shifts happening, which add to those concerns.
Another is the mindset that has lead us here and which has driven the change you say you would like reversed.
All of that makes me unable to just trust and get on with building and advocacy. I can no longer promote the network because of where it and where I see it headed.
I will continue to advocate here and elsewhere for the fundamentals that brought t us together. And am building again, now with different goals and much lower expectations, but to my surprise my new project remains compatible with the work I’d been doing up to September.
I’m not going to shut up because I don’t believe that serves the true goals we share. Much better for everyone to raise concerns, ask questions, discuss and understand as much of the reality as possible IMO.
Every time a discussion like this today arises it’s clear that there are very different understandings of what it means and I think seeing those is helpful.
I wish you the very best David and will be happy to work with you and others, where we can agree on a common path to the fundamentals.
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This is key to me. We need to get it over the line, but we also need others stepping up and a dev environment that’s really open and well managed. That last part is hard, but I know we (the community) can give it a great shot.
Please don’t confuse the network and the business though Mark. I am happy the team are trying what they can and I don’t know all details, but I know they are working their buts off to get a launch. We have to give them that and even if you disagree with partnerships etc. it does not change the network. I personally don’t disagree, but my minds not on that, I do congratulate the work they are doing. It’s a buzz in slack, non stop hard work.
I think / hope it’s on this network, I a desperate for it to be running as I have a few projects I really want to launch myself, but we need the API’s you have been (rightly) shouting about.
In any case relaxing now is a good thing. I am sure there will be mistakes, but as long as there is progress to having this network u and running and being used then we should all feel a bit better.
It’s our network folks, all of us. It’s never intended to be owned by anyone. We need to keep that goal alive
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This is where we differ. The business is in control of the network until it isn’t, and we can see the IMO damaging effect the business can have on the network in terms of it every being able to achieve its original aim.
Getting it launched won’t fix that if what is launched has been made centralised, non private etc compared to what is needed to reach the fundamentals.
I’m not confusing not achieving perfection with failure here.
What I see is a problem with the direction and changes that make bringing things back on course more and more difficult as things progress to that launch. That’s a product of a different mindset. A mindset that is becoming unconsciously accepted and entrenched in everyone involved, and everyone who creates relationships, personal and business with others who share that mindset.
I’m sure the team are working hard to get something launched. The question is whether what is launched will ever get near enough to the fundamentals or if they have lost sight of the goal.
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On this front, one thing I worry about is if this proposal of @neo is going to be tried and tested before the code lock date?
Sure, the network seems to be working pretty well from behind home routers at the moment, but there’s hardly any traffic.
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Number 5 is perhaps the fundamental you were thinking of.
If data on Autonomi becomes monetised then the web will end up not being free to browse. There will be broken links unless you pay the price, paywalls on every chunk. This would be a broken network.
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We must remember that this isn’t an academic project. It isn’t funded with an endless credit line. It also can’t claim to support freedom, while enforcing limitations of usage.
The project was funded by investors, who most likely want a return. Many freedom loving folks also work for companies with proprietary technology.
Imo, most of what the network set out to do has become a reality. Sure, it needs to mature and stabilise, APIs need finishing, economics need to work, etc, but it is pretty close! It’s also open source. It’s an exciting time!
An unfinished and unused, but ethically perfect network, is a useless network. It needs to gel with the real world. The tools will be there to build ethical, free, software, but it surely must be open to everyone else too.
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