Autonomi charity boxing match? Maybe grindrmax92 could sponsor the afterparty.
One can look at this and focus on the savings to uploading data. ![]()
But I look on this and see the ability for everyone who has ANT to be able to upload what they want and as much as their ANT reserves allows them.
I hope this succeeds since it will mean the network can grow as intended.
And as always, thankyou for the update
If I understand correctly it’s possible that the paymaster integrates with uniswap and might sell ant for eth to cover the tx cost - so not necessarily any savings at all… (but actually an increase because of the swap cost that then need to be added to every payment instead of batch wise exchanges as it is now)
One can hope though that being done in bulk will have savings in costs to swapping.
Also one can hope that it increases demand for ANT and thus the market will improve, thus reducing the amount of ANT needed for compensating over fees
Finger crossed ..
Hard to put a price on the reduction in friction. Any advancement there should be celebrated. The entire industry is an absolute scam with less than 10 or so assets being directly purchasable with cash out of the 10,000 or so available.Will be hard as hell, but somebody needs to develop a native exchange. That’s the killer app.
Maybe @loziniak and crew can tackle that after a successful native token is proven out?
Somebody will. The amount of collective brainpower here is just beyond next level. The next twelve months are going to be absolutely insane.
Definitely … I only hope that the native token remains a goal of the team. Adding paymasters is great, but it also seems like a workaround that could lead to the team not putting forth the effort for native - or worse, leaving it a goal on the roadmap, but never actually getting around to doing it - leaving us diehard native fans all endlessly hanging.
If so, then we’ll have to figure out how to add native ourselves sooner rather than later and that may require a hard fork - which would suuck.
After watching these guys do their thing over the years, it would not surprise me at all if they put @loziniak on payroll. Making the native token and native exchange a reality should be top priority. Funding would be raised immediately.
I expect it wouldn’t in terms of network data etc. It would probably require a certain proportion of nides to upgrade their version to one that supports native payments before activation, but given it’ll significantly increase earnings of node operators, I expect they’d be up for it if it were ready to go.
Been asked numerous times I see but how is it possible to have gasless ANT payments?
Who has even the slightest idea?
They aren’t really gasless, the gas is paid by the paymaster contract and the fee is added to the overall fee paid - so allows for ANT to be used to pay for the whole transaction, instead of ANT + ETH gas fee.
Ahh gotcha ![]()
And now I see if i had continued to read more comments I would have found the answer ![]()
Go on @Bux @JimCollinson @dirvine
Make it happen !!!
Just going to play devils advocate here but, I am right
.
Everytime a community member contributes in a notable way there are calls for Maidsafe to hire them.
Not exactly growing decentralization is it?
This much is true ![]()
However I want @loziniak to be able to contribute to the max right now and if that means that Maidsafe/Autonomi has to pay him some wages, I am prepared to compromise on the sacred tenets of decentralisation. ← Not actually a religion or sacred philosophy but listening to some folk round here… ← Not specifically a dig at you @Josh ![]()
I’ll tell you one way to have it.
Usually a “paymaster contract” refers to gas being paid for by a smart contract - in exchange for an amount of ERC20 token (e.g. ANT) valued at least as much as the gas costs. This is a good step forward but not “gasless”. It can, for example, help someone who’s ran nodes & earned ANT - they can be empowered to transact without having to figure out how to buy & move ETH to their rewards address.
To achieve nearly-gas-free, consider Payment Channels. Bitcoin’s Lightning Network is a good example of this.You can look up “lightning network micropayments” to get an idea.
Basically, through smart contracts and off-chain transactions, payments from clients to nodes can happen. Payments would typically be routed over a few hops - each “payment transmitter” (or “bank” - whatever you want to call it) would charge a percentage. If this is architected well by the team that implements it, there could be a smart contract that serves as a registry for listing banks, their routes and fees (for routing payments to connected banks). It would cost some collateral to be listed on the registry, which would serve to ensure compliance.
So, instead of Autonomi nodes receiving an on-chain transaction (to their rewards address) for every data payment, they’d have one or more payment transmitter channels (“bank accounts”).
Gas would only need to be paid when moving ANT in or out of a “bank account”. Also, a small amount of gas would be paid by banks when they settle their inter-bank payment channels. e.g. a bank called “Barclays” originally set up a payment channel with a bank called “HSBC” with 100 ANT collateral and has routed a few million small off-chain debits totaling 100 ANT - the channel is settled on-chain with one transaction for 100 ANT.
Depositors / payees could always withdraw their funds at any time. It would cost a little bit of gas however (and perhaps the gas is payable by ANT).
Basically, as data payments come in, node operators would receive “receipts” from their bank account(s). Each receipt would be for a greater amount than the prior receipt, and a receipt could be used to make a withdrawal from the bank (via a smart contract that doesn’t need further permission from the bank). The receipts issued to a payee (Autonomi node operator) would all have the same nonce, so that the payee would only be able to redeem one receipt that has that nonce - preventing double-dipping.
It’s worth noting that these “banks” would need to use p2p communications with each other that are feeless. I don’t think ScratchPads are appropriate (fast enough). The banks don’t have to use Autonomi itself for their off-chain ledgers - that can be a separate layer (but I don’t know, maybe Autonomi’s current client networking libraries could support this use case as-is). Either way, I believe nearly-gasless is totally doable.
I agree in principle but I think fundamental components could be an exception. Pull requests with bug fixes, optimizations, minor features, certainly don’t warrant hiring them. Substantial work that fills core gaps, at least initially, could be better to have in-house to ensure the work that’s done is work that the team would actually accept.
This is key! This open up for original vision where you just run your nodes so long as earning covers upload fee. Safe Access For Everyone ![]()
For example in my juristicion, handling ETH traceable to an exchange is a taxable event AFAIK. And that is a BIG time theft and a additional dox risk.
Now, when maidsafe has paused the inproject native token, I can only see how an external (open source) NT will make ANT/Emaid/omni token worth less. New users will use the cheapest way and will not care about old bags of project tokens.
That said, would still love to see a Native Token when ANT starts to dominante the Arbitrum Blockchain ![]()