Update 28 September, 2023

Development Updates
61

Fair point but it was also pointed out they needed something that is most importantly, descriptive and unique and ‘CashNote’ manages that. ValueNote seems good and addresses something @neo had said about Cash maybe being a regulatory trigger word. The concept of a ‘Safe’ or vault as we used to know them, would not be specific enough to the vehicle of value.

I mean obviously they have their heads in the code and have mulled it over as a team. Not trying to discourage input but it tends to escalate to more than that after everyone joins in giving what they think is the best input, ya know?

The good thing is, the team hears us and has been accountable to the community quite openly several times in the past. Small stuff like this just ain’t worth tripping us all up imo.

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62

I don’t think I’m trippng anyone up or being tripped up. I see value for me and the project in these discussions as I noted.

Some go over the top but that shouldn’t be allowed to stop a useful discussion. Moderators should handle that so we can have these discussions.

Jim can always say if he doesn’t have time at this point, but as we know MaidSafe respect and value interaction with the community, and that’s again good for all of us.

It’s apparent that they were planning to open this up for discussion soon so I suspect this will be just a warm up. :wink:

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63

Can you explain which is more similar to CashNote as a technology - NFT or ERC20?

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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64

No because honestly NFTs are not something I’m wildly au fait with. I’d be inclined to say erc20 because of that?

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65

But a CashNote is not fungible or is it?

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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66

Maybe it’s not comparable to either? From my understanding, I thought @TylerAbeoJordan had a good analogy of CashNote being like email protocol and SNT being the content of the email. Just that it is a vehicle of value, like a messaging protocol perhaps?

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67

Underlying technology has not changed here. If you considered DBCs non fungible you can consider cashnote non fungible.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at w/ erc20 vs NFT? Do you mean for naming of things?

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68

I’m trying to figure out what they are in the context of crypto. From what I read, I get the impression that they are not exactly a protocol, but an object (file) that you can own - in a similar way that you own NFT or ЕRС20. Is this a correct or incorrect understanding?

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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69

Waded through the above - thank you to all for your constructive suggestions on what is a tricky area

IMHO ValueNote is the least bad of all we have seen so far.

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70

I think there is going to be a poll.
Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow but sooner or later, there will be a poll. And his name will be Piotr.

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71

It’s a bit of data that tells you what derived key to use to spend a value that can from a parent tx.

It could be copied and would be all worth the same to whoever holds the main private key?

It could not be given to anyone who does not hold the private key and be of any use to them (beyond exposing the derived key that has been paid?).

You do not transfer the CashNote, but you use it to be able to sign a transaction and make a Spend on the network. Which may result in more CashNotes explaining to folk they own a value of SNT with a given derived key.

Is that helpful?

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72

It’s also, by itself, relatively mundane and not a specific usp or innovation. It’s the system as a whole that is.

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73

@JimCollinson How’s this…

What’s a CashNote?

A CashNote is like a box with some writing on the outside and an asset hidden inside.

Anyone in possession of the box can send identical copies to anyone else, because it is implemented as a computer file. But this doesn’t multiply the contents, because the box can only be opened once no matter how many copies exist.

On the outside of the box is written the public key of the owner of the contents.

Only the owner’s private key can be used to open the box.

Opening a Box ‘Spends’ the Contents

When the owner opens a box, the box and any copies become useless, and one or more new boxes are created with owners as specified by the opener. The sum of the contents of the new boxes will exactly match the contents of the original box.

Each new box can only be opened by the recipient whose public key is written on that new box.

If all copies of an unopened box are lost, the contents become inaccessible forever.

Double-Spend of a Box is Prevented

The creator of a box could attempt to send the same contents to more than one box with different owners, but in doing so the contents will become inaccessible to anyone forever (thus preventing ‘double spend’).

The recipient of the box who has the relevant private key can prevent that loss by creating a new box with the contents, for themselves or someone else before a double spend is attemped.

Multiple ownership

In practice, a box can have multiple owners and so have multiple public keys written on the outside. In this case, N of M keys will be needed to open the box, with N and M decided by the creator.

Then What’s a Wallet?

I think a wallet is what we call the public key written in each box, and all the boxes associated with that key.

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EDIT: @MaidSafe if this is anywhere near useful/accurate I’d love a critique from MaidSafe because I think it’s a reasonably understandable explanation.

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If that’s a good enough metaphor, how about AssetBox?! :wink:

Or perhaps LockedAssets, LockedBox… or as @jlpell suggests, a Safe :man_facepalming:

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74

I asked google Bard “Give a list of synonyms for the concept of cash in envelope being sent to someone e.g. cashnote”:

Here is a list of synonyms for the concept of cash in envelope being sent to someone:

  • Cashnote
  • Cash payment
  • Cash remittance
  • Cash transfer
  • Cold cash
  • Envelope of cash
  • Hand-delivered cash
  • Lump sum payment
  • Money order
  • Paper money
  • Tender
  • Wired cash

Some of these terms are more formal than others, and some are more specific. For example, the term “cashnote” is more formal than the term “cold cash.” The term “envelope of cash” is more specific than the term “cash transfer.”

When choosing a synonym, it is important to consider the context in which it will be used. For example, if you are writing a formal letter, you might want to use the term “cashnote.” If you are talking to a friend, you might want to use the term “cold cash.”

I hope this helps!

Maybe it put cashnote in the list I think because it was part of my question.

I think “Tender” might be a good term for it.

Tender:

  1. (Law) To offer in payment or satisfaction of a demand, in
    order to save a penalty or forfeiture; as, to tender the
    amount of rent or debt.
    [1913 Webster]
  • It’s simple and easy to remember
  • It doesn’t necessarily imply money (so maybe less regulatory scrutiny)
  • specific to task, so not so controversial as a combined word is.
75

Then why not call it a box? :disguised_face:

DAB = Digital Asset Box

Hold on a sec… isn’t a box that contains and secures important items or valuable assets called aaaa … wait for it … drumroll … it’s called a SAFE everyone. :rofl:

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76

Because a ‘box’ implies storage, not just a transfer. More confusing.

77

Not necessarily. Small and lightweight boxes or crates are easy to transfer. Just ask UPS, fedex, or DHL. A “room” or “vault” implies storage. A “container” can imply either and is more generic.

A box typically stores something in a very portable and transferable way, serving as a container that is disposable once it has served it’s purpose to facilitate a transfer.

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78

If you read Jim’s responses and if my summary of them is correct, then it isn’t a transfer. It is more like a box that holds the assets. No box, no assets.

As noted though, I don’t know how accurate my summary is. I think we’ll get a more complete and detailed explanation of it all from MaidSafe, but it would help if they were to point out where my summary isn’t accurate.

I think what we call a wallet is in fact the public key that’s written on the box, and the private key is what can ‘open’ the box (ie move the contents to newly created boxes with other public keys written on them).

So the box does I believe contain the assets like a Safe, so :man_shrugging:

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79

My understanding, is:

  1. that they are bringing back the term ‘safe’ to represent a wallet.

  2. that the cashnote is a transfer - containing a specific amount of SNT to send as a payment to another.

Perhaps I am wrong about one or both.

80

I read the thread carefully a few times, and if I understand it correctly, the CashNote is a kind of uniquely identifiable data, necessary to issue the right derivative key in order to spend value - but if this data is lost, it harms your privacy.

Therefore, it can be considered that this data associated with the correct key necessary to issue the Value is a kind of Certificate, and since the information about the transfer of the value (about the transaction) is priceless, it should be Safe.

Therefore, you may want to consider using the term SCC SafeCashCertificate possibly SVC SafeValueCertificate.