Update 21 September, 2023

Precisely.

It all starts with a Safe on your local device.

Add any data to it and its encrypted, secure, and broken into chunks that can only be reassembled by you.

Want to take that data anywhere? Connect it to anything? Drop in some tokens, and what you add to that Safe will be permanently stored for on the Network. Once it’s on the Network, your files and app data will be accessible across a constellation of personal devices—without ceding control to corporate providers.

You can access all your data from any device, yet without any of your personal information ever touching the internet—it’s securely reassembled just for you.

Plus, you can earn tokens by contributing spare storage, or even code, and they’ll be dropped right in your Safe too. Boom!

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Sounds slick :+1:

What about the hardest problem in computer security…

Do you know what options will be supported for key/credential management? Not just for data but also wallets.

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In the medium term, we are aiming for the BLS multisig approach, as we outlined before.

Can you calrify what you mean here? Wallets are just data after all.

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EDIT: sorry, should have clicked your link before responding. Lots good there, thanks.

Can you say more about the UX, that’s the hard problem I’m referring to rather than the cryptographic implementation, though also vitally important.

So what options will users have for authorisation, key and credential storage, such as in their head, key manager apps or hardware etc.

I highlighted wallets because there will be different expectations around cat pics in a Safe and a wallet that has a few SNT and a wallet holding a few lambos. So for example, there might be a process to unlock a Safe but an additional, perhaps optional credential check for transfers involving a wallet or wallets associated with it contained in the Safe.

People running nodes may well end up with a lot of wallets so managing those could be a challenge too.

Maybe I’m thinking beyond MVP here!

EDIT: sorry, should have clicked your link before responding. Lots good there, thanks.

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Yeah, the UX described in the link is a little fruther on than the MVP we are looking at for the Luacnh candidate. But all the raw ingredients are there, ready for it to be assembled. It’s very flexible.

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I’ve seen the use of ‘CashNotes’ for the strings that can be used to transfer value. Can we have a think about this before things get set it stone?

Do we have to be beholden to old technology like paper notes? Do we even want to reference anything to do with money by using the word ‘cash’?

How about:-
Digital Value String
Network Transfer Code
Storage Value Number

My point is that we don’t have to be trapped in the past and there might be advantages in making it clear that this is a clean break that outweigh a term that is more familiar to people.

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But also worth considering not to reinvent the wheel and also use language which ordinary people can understand and relate to.

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yes, that’s why I caveated what I was saying at the end. Yes, there are short term advantages to sticking to terms that reference the old way of doing things. Let’s face it - we’re trying to put in place something that will last for longer than paper or metal money has been in existence.

With enough explanation we might be able to overcome the short term disadvantages of making it clear this is something different.

I think one of the things that has ultimately hampered Bitcoin was the ‘coin’ part. A lot of people thought it was analogous to cash that you can hold and is as ‘safe’. It’s just an entry in a ledger, albeit a distributed one. Cue much confusion and shenanigans. (Every time I see a gold ‘Bitcoin’ spinning around on a news report I want to throw my computer off a bridge.)

At least Ethereum struck out on their own with a new terminology that didn’t reference anything previously: Ether and Gas.

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If it has no different method of use or similar then can’t see the point. If money is metal, paper, digital or something else dosen’t matter if it works the way money works, transfer of value with something that represents value but don’t consists the value it represents like example gold. Computer geek clubs seem to always want to overcomplicate things making their own little exclusive bubble club which no other understands, best to avoid that route. If want to differentiate then could choose Ecash notes, Emoney notes and similar.

To me this is not the problem people have with Bitcoin. I see two major things.

  1. Small amounts with too many decimal places. Ordinary transactions of example a coffee is made in fractions with too many decimal places, even me with a business & administration bachelor struggles and have to use the calculator for every trade and re-check multiple times. Safe will have similar problem but not as severe as Bitcoin. People likes it simple and simple is to do most trades in whole numbers, maybe 1 decimal, maximum 2. At least many Ethereum services convert to dollar so you don’t have to think about decimals. But digital currencies should be at least have 100 000x or 1000 000x the supply of BTC.

  2. Public and private keys is too complicated and people have no reference to what it means. It should have been called similar to public account phrase and private signing key because then people could relate to bank accounts and two-factor signing and similar.

Oh, good old Safe! Welcome back hahaha.

Any chances to implement client-to-client messaging on that? Could that be an answer to an instant messaging problem?

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How can we protect against client side scanning of screen data? Apple is slowly introducing this “feature” in the name of protecting children.

I expect Google to follow as well.

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Do you have any link on how they want to that?

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We are going to end up needing Safe Network phones that boot directly into Safe Network. They are using this AI to scan screen content which means they can see your private keys or content once your connected to SN.

The’ve added the “feature” to the latest version of MacOS.

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There are some promising looking Linux phones. I follow some hashtags on Mastodon which gives me the impression they are starting to get useable. Think early Linux days, a bit hacky, not everything you are used to but still usable.

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Agreed. I think is the path going forward.

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Even if it’s a bit clunky at first, building a privacy focused Linux based phone that integrates Safe tightly could be a great opportunity.

What hardware do the Linux based phone projects use?

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I don’t follow closely enough to answer questions sorry. I just get a sense of progress and usefulness.

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There’s always /e/ OS and Murena

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/murena/murena-2-switch-your-privacy-on

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Pine Phone is a nice project: PINEPHONE | PINE64
Together with PostmarketOS, which puts Linux on regular phones: https://postmarketos.org/

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There are a few mainstream (and not so mainstream) phones that Ubuntu Touch and supporters have facilitated getting to work with Ubuntu Touch →

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