Or, a project can regularly engage with its community and not go essentially quiet for a year at a time. A project could also ensure that it is listed on a healthy number of exchanges to make sure people who want to participate can do so easily. A project can invest in shipping releases with accessible documentation and UX/UI. A project could make it a point to keep its relationships warm with the press and exchanges as well as other potential business partners. A project could invest in making sure its community is welcoming.
I raise these examples to highlight that marketing isnāt actually an enigmatic, occult art. Itās literally just practical and wise business decisions to boost awareness, engagement and influence. All the above are examples of effective marketing strategy. None of the above need be āimmoralā.
No marketing needs to be immoral. That is the point. The rest about project engaging etc. is all stuff we already do on a weekly basis. The rest are issues we stated categorically the team would not do until launch.
We need to be careful of āthe projectā meaning MaidSafe when it suite and then any comment on marketing that is emphatically true, even if negative, is not defended by some attack on āthe projectā. Surely you can admit there is bad marketing, not bad or incapable marketeers, but bad and evil professional marketing!
No need to be confrontational about this point, it is valid and real with no debate.
[edit I also think @Sotros25 you completely missed my point there ]
First of all: my response is in response to more comments than just yours.
Confrontational? Any time I post anything about marketing, many people come at me with guns blazing. While Iām thankful to the people who help to push back, they are often quickly attacked themselves. You know itās bad when people spontaneously and privately send you messages about the toxic treatment, hoping you wonāt burnout and quit.
This was supposed to be a thread celebrating an exchange listing and look at what itās devolved intoā¦
If I wanted to be specific to MaidSafe I would have said MaidSafe.
Letās set aside the condescension in the above. Obviously, yes. To do otherwise would be like saying all knives are good. A knife is neither good nor evil. It is a tool that could be used to either end.
Yes exchanges are good, and marketing can be great too.
Be honest though, stay moral, keep making the point of how the network is for humanity first. This is how any hugely successful business works. And this is the immense advantage MAID has right now: its reputation.
It will succeed through solving problems of humanity, like saving the environment from BTC. If it focusses on the good it is doing first, the result of this is will be profits.
Stay on this message, because there are many outlets that are not in the crypto bubble, that will pick up on this messaging.
I have ideas of where to promote the safe network outside of crypto.
And these independent Youtubers who have huge followings, will really like the environmental messaging behind the safe network. Plus they have many followers who follow their investment advice, and are always looking for the new, and cutting edge, up and coming companies, that need support in order to save the planet.
If Safe wants to resonate with these tribes, messaging has to remain honest, moral, and progressively inspiring. We must look outside the crypto box. The potential low power computing requirement that the safe network offers, on ARM processors, is a huge advantage that should not be overlooked. Because people are worried about the future of the planet. Just some food for thought.
This is a really critical area we absolutely have to get some focus on. The risks as I stated above of returns verses integrity are more real in crypto that any other part of the possible users in my opinion. So whilst great and early adopters, there is also risk in staying too focussed there. So a spread is absolutely going to have to happen.
Is that where you start the messaging? Why start going after niche groups before you exposed the low hanging fruit? There doesnāt always need to be an obligation to win on both the tech and the moral compass.
What is extraordinary is the focus and that at odds with other projects - not looking to pump and dump.
Marketing too often is about promoting and boosting beyond what is real and creating an illusion ā¦ rather than simply communicating truth and the allowing realistic engagement.
I think the comment above about those disenfranchised, is keyā¦ there is a lot of opportunity; a lot of appetite; and a lot of need for SAFEā¦ we need to be alert to where we are.
Yes, there is more that could be done but the value of that for the core Maidsafe team is much less than focus on code, as they are doing.
Also, worth reflecting that this is a product that fairly sells itselfā¦ the number of data slippages just in the last week, is extraordinary - data security is oneā¦ but what SAFE offers is many threads each of which will have an audience.
Point Iām trying to make - after a glass of wine if not clear ā¦ is that we need as many people doing as many activities as possible to appeal and engage with those audiences but there is no point overselling or underselling itā¦ this a long game not a short quick win. I wonder at this stage, simple punchy messages of progress work well.
There is no perfect solution to marketing, and there does not need to beā¦ itās communication and engagement but is best done relative to the reality. Too many, crypto projects especially, have the opposite approach and fail because the PR department fudges the message with too much optimism too soonā¦ back it up with solid tried and tested is easierā¦ and if ever there is a shortage of peopleā¦ and in the face of a global opportunity, there will beā¦ then using energy to greatest effect will work best. Right now Iām glad to see Maidsafe is focused so much on development and not promotion and publicityā¦ I think that would detract from what is being achieved. There will be a time that changes.
If you mean you are getting DMs that are toxic then I would say turn them off and make sure people communicate in the open. I have mine off and much prefer conversations in the open.
If you mean you are being attacked in the open and defended privately then you should alert the mods, this is not that kind of place, but people will certainly have very different opinions on Marketing and the message we put out, but that shoudl be healthy debate. If it becomes an issue of sides then we all lose out.
So I would say, if it helps, stay open and alert mods to any actual abuse etc. I know I personally am very wary of Marketing, but have been supportive where possible, certainly always supportive of the effort and time you have put into this. I think most have, but in no sense do I feel folk will blindly accept, they will, like me, question and continue to question the message. We win that way.
I understand the need for marketing but it can be too much as it scales from constructive to predatory. Unfortunately, these days it seems that everything is okay.
Concerning price, I guess percentages of āpriceā of a good can be attributed to
intrinsic value, or utility to someone acquiring the good if demand >> supply
scarcity, competition in acquiring the good, increased by awareness of the existence of the good and its potential utility, and
speculation, FOMO, pumps and dumps, etc., which benefits from creating hype.
As consumer I like price to be 100% of (1) and I will be happy with any discounts.
As investor or supporter of an ideal for society overall, I would be okay or happy with a larger percentage in category as a reward for my investment (2)
As a speculator I want to get ahead of everybody else and I would like (3) to cash out quickly and move on to my next target.
I feel itās best if marketing and product delivery are tuned to each-other. Development is steadily progressing, and we need to steadily increase awareness.
We need a basic access to trading MAID, but I am not in favor of stoking speculation and FOMO based price increases. (3)
I donāt see liquidity as directly useful for (2), but indirectly it is a form advertising, rising to the top of some charts. But if overdone it may stoke (3) which seems bad for MaidSafe and its investors and everybody else, except for those who want a quick profit and exit. I guess when calling for greater liquidity, itās a balancing act.
Hey, I was re-reading the thread to track how this happened. I think I was playing a big part in this by starting to question the whole point of getting a new exchange - even though it is not functioning properly yet. Iām sorry for that.
It seems that every time there is a progress on the marketing side, the following algorithms ensues:
Those who get triggered because they donāt understand what the word marketing actually means.
Start spamming nonsense about why they are against it as an expert armchair philosopher.
And again there is this horde of people who are misusing the term marketing to refer to promotion and advertisement, and think this is a waste of money.
This is the band of people who might be thinking āYeah! Wozniak Rules, Jobs sucks!ā or āIf I just donāt get it, so it must be irrelevant!ā or āI have no freaking idea of what I am talking about, nor have any related experience, but I will give my opinion anyways because you suck!ā
And every time there is a new effort to improve the marketing, or even explain the fundamentals of what is marketing in layman terms in the attempt to educate the members of the forum, it restarts and it happens again.
This is extremely frustrating to watch. Almost as frustrating as explaining to flat earthers why artificial satellites arenāt a lie.
And to be brutally honest, it is ridiculous that a community member is voluntarily doing the work of a whole marketing department. And I wonder, is a company without a marketing division even a company?
This project is still being managed as an extremely talented, resilient and passionate R&D department, but not as a company. I only see a Head of Innovation and product development without a CEO.
It is fascinating that there are community members who are donating funds to keep the project alive, which shows how incredibly strong the community is, but again it also shows that the company itself has fundamental weaknesses.
Which is also quite a paradox, as Iāve seen other companies properly managed but failed within 5 years. Maidsafe is a very weird case that is surviving not because of it, but despite of it. The question that this raises is, how high Maidsafe and the Safe Network could go if we truly do give a damn about marketing in the proper way and make it so efficiently?
Those who keep talking about marketing as if it were a pseudoscience almost equating it to throwing chicken bones to read your fortune and at the same time as an illegal drug that can only be used for āevilā truly have no freaking idea what they are talking about.
Are we still living in the 70s? What the hell is going on?
This is as exasperating as those people who say that say that psychology is bullshit, just because they had a cursory reading about Freud fifty years ago!
Pretty annoying when someone comes into the conversation and tells everyone how āitā is.
Suddenly piluso decided ātheyā
or
or
Um. Have you been reading the thread? Philosophy etc. Who gave you all the answers? Its a healthy debate that has perhaps maybe has lost its point. But, does not everyone learn from that? Or perhaps you piluso should be telling everyone what marketing is?
It was an interesting thread till some got hostile and know it allsā¦
I didnt mean to attack you and my apologies if it came across that way. I just find the flow here very strange. I am trying to understand both sidesā¦ (And i dont know much about marketing but i dont think being a āknow it allā helps)
Was it healthy really? Sotros25 is attacked every time she proposes anything, and it really worried be the last few replies of her as I was seeing signs of being burnout.
This thread is anything but healthy.
You might not be actively participating in the forum, Iāve been trying since 2014.
Threads forking like this remind me of the importance of the Principal of Charityā¦ read the best of what others are suggesting, not the worst.
Marketing refers to activities a company undertakes to promote the buying or selling of a product.
First the product.
I would expect everyone appreciates the efforts that are put to communicating what progress has been madeā¦ wherever and whoever.
There is no one perfect solution and many opinionsā¦ and thatās fine but focus on the positive. There will be an audience out there interested in the stage we are atā¦ and important to reach those. It is not all for Maidsafe to do, which is why Sotrosā efforts are appreciatedā¦ alongside all others.
Lol, love that Jim. I hate ads and often marketing is disingenuous but itās not all bad if itās clear and stating the facts or even if itās funny and just peaking our curiosity.
I think the fact that there are manipulative aspects that can hack our psychology is the most contentious bit. Not that it has to be like that.
For those who take it personally from either perspective, itās worth noting we are all attracted to a new and more honest approach, an approach that focuses on root issues. Though we may have to play the game from time to time it doesnāt mean we arenāt willing to also break the ārulesā or work outside the box.
ā¦ is that we need as many people doing as many activities as possible to appeal and engage with those audiences but there is no point overselling or underselling itā¦ this a long game not a short quick win. I wonder at this stage, simple punchy messages of progress work well.