The rebirth of Napster on SAFE network

So again apologies for the beginner questions over the next few days.

Remember how Napster was taken down back in the good old days. I take it wouldn’t be possible under the SAFE Framework. I understand that each data is owned by someone in SAFE, and that by default data is private, but a user can opt in for its data to be public.

So my questions are:

  • Will it be possible to create apps that would be some sort of directories for public information hosted on SAFE?
  • Each piece of data is owned and encrypted by a user. Will it be possible for this user to copy the data easily and duplicate it (not simply transfer to someone else, but send a copy to someone else)

you are talking about something that has smiliar features like the blog-example-app by maidsafe aren’t you …? MaidSafe Dev Update - October 4, 2016 – TEST 10
or like the forum project decorum is creating (just to add another keyword you can look for)

so yes 100’% possible

sorry i don’t understand the question - where is the difference …?
if you share some data that data can be accessed by the people you shared it with. they can look at it inside safe, possibly store it in their safe account or can decide to make a local copy of it so they have access when being offline.
once you shared the data the other user has access to it. like a bitcoin wallet where you just shared the public key

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well in the blockchain data is transfered, cannot be duplicated.

so I asked the question if data can be copied by someone else, while original owner of the data kept ownership.
If all the data are backed by a coin, they have an intrinsic monetary value. If data is copied, it loses its value or devaluates its value. So I was wondering how duplication is handled from the monetary point of view within the SAFE framework.

aaaaah - okay

now i’m not sure what you mean by “ownership” … you publish e.g. your cat-picture site via the safe demo app; everybody can access it and see what you uploaded but only you can modify it … because you are the owner of the site

of course someone else can link the same resources with another “domain”; either make a copy of your site and link every piece of data or link the whole domain … so either a static copy would work or a dynamic copy that changes with your site …
…i’m not sure if that answers your question … if not i’m afraid your question might be above my head and someone else could help you better :smiley:

don’t just think cat pictures. I am talking more compex structured data here as well.
Will there be a functionnality to copy paste public structured data ?

copying a cat picture is easy, but a video is more difficult if the functionality is not built in natively. Can any data be copied, and if yes does it amount to coin creation or coin division…?

that’s my question.

:hushed: ok - sorry - i am clearly the wrong one to answer your questions i think … i don’t see where the difference between a cat picture, a video or some obscure data struct is … basically it’s all zeros and ones to me … and if you can see it you can copy it … i don’t see what could prevent that …

hmhmmm since safecoin isn’t defined in detail yet saying anything about any connection between different aspects of the network and safecoin would be pretty speculative …

My attempt at an answer (corrections gladly received)

Data is data. If you have access, you can store it somewhere else and it is then yours. Video is not any different than cat pics.

If you want to copy it on SAFEnet, this can be done. Someone will have to pay to store the second copy. But if they have access they can download the file and store/share it somewhere else. There is no way to give access to data and at the same time prevent it from being copied away from you. At the extreme, look at the DRM arms race for media… all attempts to prevent copying have failed. The only copyprotect left standing is physical dongles that require a server to decrypt key parts of code.

To explicitly answer your questions:

Any data can be copied if one has access to it. Copying it to a new owner on SAFEnet will require paying more storage fees. You can set up permissioned websites on SAFEnet, but same as the regular internet, once access is given to data, you cannot prevent it from being copied.

Coin creation or division? This question indicates a misunderstanding to me. Coins are tied to resources, not the value your data may have in meatspace. Once on SAFEnet, it is simply ownership, access or no access. If you stream it, your access can be revoked. If you copy it and pay fees to store the data again, then you can do what you will with it.

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Usually a picture or a video will be stored as immutable data, and share any of the two it’s just sharing the datamap that allows decrypt it. If you want this file in your public or private storage you only need to store the datamap and, as is a small file, the cost will be negligible.

There’s no simple route to indexing all public information… but trivial to post that data you are aware of.
You can find urls that are easily guessed but might never find the others.
Also, you can create any app that nodejs can handle… and then the same in any other language fit for purpose.

There was suggestion previously that sharing private data might be possible; so, not just make public.
Also, given that the SAFE browser is a limiting environment, perhaps there is opportunity for some app that streams from private data to a single individual that’s accepted for that. How that would be implemented I’m not sure and obviously anything that becomes sound can be recorded but the digital copy might be controlled… perhaps… I’m guessing beyond the limit of what we know is possible at the moment… depends how share of private data is implemented??.. and it might well be that data remains either entirely private or entirely public… though I’d be surprised if there is not some option to share privately to groups and others as needed.

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