I don’t expect safecoins I farm to pay for the electricity bill. And if you’ve got a bandwidth cap I don’t think it’s smart (financial) to ‘set up’ some kind of farm other than just farm when you’re online anyway.
It’s a very big difference to have a capped bandwidth or don’t, here in the Netherlands we’ve got unlimited bandwidth (not sure who’ll be calling you when you’re downloading 24/7 though).
No, I’m not expecting this from people without a bandwidth cap but in your situation this might be the best thing to do and that’s also the intention of the network.
For someone like you (in the States) this might be true if you’re exceeding your bandwidth yes, but I also think your turning things around here. The minimum price of safecoin should include what you can do with the safecoins, how much storage you can buy with it, what kind of apps there are, the demand etc. Not if it can pay your bills (why would you farm to pay the bills, won’t you have the same outcome by not farming at all).
You’re in the Netherlands which is why you didn’t immediately see the concern other places may have. In the United States bandwidth is capped which means there is a limit to how you the farmer can scale and it doesn’t work to just say a million people on smart phones will be farmers.
It’s going to be difficult.
Because farming is a business. If SAFE Network ever becomes what it could be then there will have to be lots of nodes everywhere. It would have to be a neighbor to neighbor mesh net, and there would have to be farmers in every state, city, country, neighborhood, because of the latency and bandwidth issues.
Otherwise SAFE Network will be great for people in Europe but not so great for people in the USA. The reason it has to be thought of as a business is because part of scaling SAFE Network includes solving last mile connection issues.
Not possible because there is a limited amount of Safecoin. If there wasn’t a cap on Safecoins at 450 million then it would be possible to simply create or delete supply to manage that.
So no it’s not likely you can do it like that entirely. It’s more the market will have to continuously create a price in Safecoin for storage, for bandwidth, for electricity, for computation, or any other service. The farmer is just a service provider and the price of farming is not uniformly equal in every location.
So the Safecoin price has to be enough to be at least be beyond a certain minimum so people in the most expensive places to farm can farm without taking a loss. If electricity is high in some places, if bandwidth is expensive in some places, these factor into the price of Safecoin for the whole network.
Luckybit, I agree with you. The price does matter. Prices affect every aspect of our lives. I know too many people who will wait in gas lines to save 2 cents per gallon - or drive for 45 minutes to be able to buy something a few bucks cheaper.
It’s a nice utopian (foolish) dream to think that the MaidSafe network will flourish and be run by legions of well meaning part-time laptop users. Or that it will grow into the dominate worldwide premiere decentralized Internet all supported by people not incentivized by SafeCoin’s price.
That’s true. But on SAFEnet you are both buying the gas and selling the gas. So if you use the same amount of gas as you produce (Farm the same amount of coins as you PUT) than there’s no problem at all.
I understand that and agree. However, that describes stasis. Perfect for the part-time laptop gang on MaidSafe who are looking to store files for “free” or close to free.
I’m talking about MaidSafe becoming the dominant force in technology. There has to be an incentive to build out robust farms, build killer apps, develop new ideas, and invest in new companies who dream of adding to the MaidSafe economy.
Also worth remembering here something we found via hard facts. The skype network stayed up and with no financial incentive at all. Bit torrent, gnutilla, emule etc. all showed something similar, why? Because there was a value to having an node on, to receive messages, download files without restarting an app every time and more. The skype folks found that folk just wanted cheap phone calls and for that were happy to leave their app running. Yes because they found value.
So add in financial incentive and that’s additional and see what happens? There were no commercial skype farmer/miners really so another question does safecoin farming have to become a business?
What if merely using the network gave value and in doing so pay’d for at least itself and a little more? Then what if safecoin as a utility to transfer value outwith the network took off?
There is much we do not know or can forsee and that does not mean stupid or economically challenged in any way. It means looking at hard facts helps and then providing as much value as possible seems to be a key component. If we do this and do it in a manner that is inclusive then great. IF bandwidth caps prevent much use it also perhaps means the Internet use in those areas is already limited anyway?
So I am not saying ignore caps, or prevent farming companies at all, all I am pointing out is that there is a lot more to this and no end of pontification will answer these questions, but solid testing and measurements will help.
To me the caps issue will force us all to look at ways to help (mesh, satellite, loon etc.). I feel personally it’s not for SAFE to solve by altering what is right, but for a perhaps wider community to rally around and fix market instability and greed. Fair enough if ISP’s have bills but when they get into bad business models then we should not support them to continue, but find alternatives. We will innovate around errors like that or force change. I don’t know how yet, but it’s lass scary than SAFE from scratch for sure. I am only one person though and do not speak for the community as we all know by now, I need my freedom to brainstorm
I be farming just so I can store my hard drive on the network, so whom will be first to buy and pay for storage, many people will have the same idea and will drive the price down with over supply.
If you write an App or create a public file, you have the option to attach your SAFEcoin address. 10% of the farmed coins will come your way. You can even build in a tip-button, ask for some cents every time you use it. I think one can even create a website and ask every 30 days for some coins as a membership fee. There are a lot of options. But until SAFEnet is fully up and running nobody really knows what is going to happen.
I’m more inclined to say that you won’t have any idea how many safecoins to buy until testnte3 has given some indication. Speculation at ANY point is fine, but you’re just shooting in the dark till real (or at least test) safecoin comes into play.
The idea is that your provision of resources should pretty much cover your usage, likely plus value due to the virtues of safecoin as an anonymous, liquid currency. The algorithms will be balanced with that in mind.
What you’re speculating on is the difference between the usefulness of safecoin in purchasing user resources balanced with what it costs to provide resources to the network (very low cost to provide for the causal farmer as it’s SPARE cpu, and harddrive).
The “time to speculate” is anytime you think you know or can guess in advance enough about the demands of everyone else to be able to buy low, to sell high in the future (or reversely for short selling).
Personally, I don’t care about speculating at all, at this time. But there is no “now’s the time for everybody to speculate”, IMHO.
IF we think about this it means, all the data is stored there is no more. The facts are that now we create exponentially more data per day that we did per year 10 years ago. The supply/demand balance is one thing, the utility cost or external use of safecoin and it’s value of you like is another. So we may make storage cheaper with oversupply (if we stop creating data) but that does not affect the value of safecoin as a currency if that takes off as anonymous cash.
So best to think oversupply does not deflate or inflate price, it merely affects farming rate. This may impact price indirectly, but it’s not (or should not be) a straight swap.
That’s a possibility. But when I Farm days after another and I only make like $0,15 while paying $0,20 on my power bill. I will stop doing that, just like a lot of others And there’s more than just storage. Think about people uploading tons of Youtube-videos to SAFE in the hope they make some money on it (10% of Farmed coins on these videos). This will ask for a lot of storage, there’s an incentive to share. And when a SAFEtube video website get’s more and more video’s, more and more people will use it.
I think it is, but who’s gonna stop you from sharing a file with only with people who use a certain App like SAFEtube? In that way it’s not public, but it get’s shared with everyone who clicks “play” in the App. No idea if that is possible.
