FYI, I am not trav. I am better than trav. My name’s actually Joe 
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During beta the network can still be reset because of a bug of the kind you describe, otherwise it would be called the live network and not beta. This is why the network will have to be tested and tested and when we thinks its all good tested again and again. The network has to be running properly when released.
Others have already said this, so in summary
There is no ledger for safecoin along the lines of a blockchain or otherwise.
The ledger mentioned in relation to safecoin is a voluntary one to allow special use of the coins. But always the coin’s ownership is defined by the “owner” field in the safecoin SD object and each coin also holds a previous owner field. Only the owner of a safecoin can transfer ownership either by sending to another account or to the system for destruction when buying resources.
Until the system has been live for some time (how long???) the exchange of MAIDSAFE for safecoin will begin. So in beta noone will lose their MAIDSAFE since it is not on the network as safecoin yet.
Yes a large bug would require a reset of the network
On reset it will be similar to now
There is no ledger used for ownership of safecoins.
No investors in the beta network, only people who own MAIDSAFE tokens and they don’t exist on the beta network.
Any safecoins coins earned on a beta network must be considered potentially worthless because it is beta.
It will be a technical decision and not a financial decision since financially the value of any test/beta safecoins are zero.
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@neo that’s what I said, you just said it better 
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There’s an aspect here that I don’t think has been addressed in this thread as yet.
Test networks will run test-safecoin until all is stable and proofed and proven out.
Then the live network will launch with safecoin live. Farmers will receive it in exchange for resources and people will be able to trade coins, buy network services, etc., with safecoins which are on the network.
The maidsafe coins (MAID) will not be converted to safecoins initially or automatically as part of the network going live. Your quote above seems to indicate that you think that’s how it is supposed to happen ( I think that’s what it indicates, anyway.)
Maidsafe coins will be converted to safecoins on a 1 to 1 basis by sending them to a burn address and providing a SAFE Network wallet address for the safecoins to be sent to. This is a process which will be initiated by the MAID owners once the mechanism for it has been established. I assume there will be a window of time for doing this, though I don’t know how it will be managed. The point is that that’s how the safecoins will get on the network: by the MAID owner using the mechanism, rather than a broad action of the network at startup.
I, for one, won’t be transferring any of my precious MAID till I’ve observed that safecoin is functioning well and stably.
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Yes, that is what I had believed.
I’m very interested to know the mechanism of how maidsafe coins will be converted. There must exist someplace a mapping between bitcoin public keys and lists of safecoin IDs.
I’m somewhat worried that the incentive to exploit the network will explode when the network goes live, and thus the real test of security will be the public release.
Are there any contingency plans for what to do if the public network is exploited?
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This is key.
This is the solution here
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The live network will most likely have to start with the ~ 10% of safecoin existing and owned by MAIDSAFE for the crowdsale exchange. How they will be generated is the question.
Don’t think the mechanism has been finalized as yet, but should be pretty straightforward when the rest is in place.
Yes, I’m sure that attack will be more likely after launch, but again, smart money is on not transferring your wad of MAID to safecoin till the honeymoon is over and things are stable and proofed. In that case, one has just the safecoin generated by farming to lose. Though I don’t thing the network will be allowed to go live till it’s quite stable and, hopefully, recoverable via data chains, etc.
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I just wonder what if it gets launched, and some people transfer their Maid, and then everything gets exploited somehow and all those maid / SafeCoin are lost,
Will a new fresh network come out, and then the people who still have their Maid be able to hold out for that more stable version?
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I’ve liked your post because you raise a good point in general but just a bit of a tip, you will need to be a bit more specific for the folks here.
I would think that a replay of the conversion process would allow people to have their coins recovered if that happened. The problem then is if they paid for physical goods and they were sent. The merchants who received the payment in safecoins (that then were reset) would not be happy.
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Yea I’ve been thinking about this problem aswell. I’m gonna hold MAID until im super sure that the network works the way it should.
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For this, it’s a pity SAFE and Bitcoin don’t use the same signing algorithms (EdDSA vs. ECDSA respectively), or else the conversion process could be really easy.
MaidSafe will have to start the initial network with the crowdsale SafeCoins “pre-farmed”. There will have to be some mechanism to link a Bitcoin public key to a SAFE public key, directly or indirectly, and it has to be recorded on either the Bitcoin blockchain or on SAFE. If it’s recorded on the Bitcoin blockchain, MaidSafe could pre-farm SafeCoins with the actual owner already in them. If this linking is done on SAFE, MaidSafe can only issue the coins to themselves initially, after which they’ll have to transfer them on proof of such a link.
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I think sending to a burn address is necessary, else after Safecoin are allocated to a MAID owner by the network, those MAID could be sold on and the new owner lose out.
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Yes you’re right, I skipped over that part. If we’d the have same signing algorithm it would be easy, as the SafeCoins could be issued on SAFE to the same public key that sent them to the burn address. But we don’t, so I guess a private key from one has to sign the public key of the other?
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More likely into vaults and in a temporary phase.
This is the way how I see the network could be bootstrapped:
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Phase 1: Maidsafe create a private network with special hardcoded vaults allowing the creation of an amount of safecoins equal to the maidsafecoins to be converted. Once this is done, these vaults are progressively replaced with regular, non hardcoded ones and then the network is opened to the public.
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Phase 2: In the new network safecoins can only be created through farming, PtP and any regular decentralized means that will have been implemented. The only things controlled by Maidsafe are the private keys of safecoins to be exchanged for Maidsafecoins. But this is standard wallet implementation, nothing is hardcoded anymore.
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Phase 3: Maidsafe proceeds to redistribution of Maidsafecoins. Contrary to phases 1 and 2 which are implemented in every Beta launch, phase 3 will be triggered only if it is estimated that network is OK and can become the final one.
By doing things this way, a test safecoins is simply a real safecoin in phases 1 & 2. This will give some value to them because current Beta may become the final network (but its value will be less than Maidsafecoin because it might not).
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No. Don’t think a second chance will be possible. Part of the process of conversion will be to transfer ownership of the MAID, thus no longer having control of them in order to do it again.
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No, I meant for the people who haven’t sent yet
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