I just finished reading this, thanks guys.
@dirvine thanks for clarification. I think we are all aware how critical the Safecoin implementation is and this whole thread has only improved my confidence in what will be delivered. Great stuff!
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Wow what a great read.
I do have a few questions/suggestions?
Paragraph 3 Obtaining SAFEcoin it’s said that providing resources is (storage space, CPU and bandwidth). Question, why is GPU not used? and does it mean that nvidia gotto stop with GPU computing? (second question no need to answer, just having fun)
Paragraph 6 Minting SAFEcoin (I really LOVE this feature).
What if Alice makes 2 copies on a usb of her transaction name and special validation
signature. Does it mean Alice can scam Bob if he doesn’t send an acknowledgement
to the network, right there on the spot with Alice present?
Paragraph 8 A Revenue Model for a New Internet.
Does the watermarking feature work on the first come first served bases or is your mark tied to your ID on the old internet? For instance if Alice says she is Bob Marley, how do I know, that’s the truth?
Last question/suggestion:
An adversary could process a large number of transaction requests to the network in an attempt to overload
it, the addition of a very small transaction fee may mitigate this risk.
Will this mitigation be done on a individual bases? For instance an adversary sends a million transaction, will they get TXcosts due to this large numbers of TX? Instead of everybody having to pay TXcosts?
Sorry I lied, about the last question. What happens if I loose the keys to my account? Will my SAFEcoins be stuck in limbo forever or is it still possible for these SAFEcoins to be farmed (reused by the network) after a period of inactivity?
Just to talk a little crazy about Minting Safecoins, I can allready see somebody creating a machine that spits out paper version of SAFEcoins, the only problem in this static approach is that the old owner will still have the credentials. So unless their is a way to change the special validation signature for instance if you scan the bill/qrcode, the special validation signature changes.
The network checks resource by trying to retrieve the chunk from a node and therefore anything that contributes to the chunk being retrieved is contributing.
Yes, Bob should ensure that he is the new owner of the coins in the eyes of the network before he assumes that a payment has been made.
This would be assigned to your public ID, so first come first served. So for brand new content, that doesn’t yet exist online there would be no issue. For existing content we would need to use the common sense that we use today when trying to determine the official account on YouTube or Sound Cloud, for example.
I think the remaining questions are valid and ones that we will attempt to deal with during implementation although David may have thoughts on them already.
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Thanks for your quick answer Nick, I can’t stress it enough this was a good read and gave a better idea of SAFEcoin.
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great read indeed. makes me look forward to all the nice things i can do with my coins 
what is not coming out clearly enough IMO is the fact that safecoin really has superior
features compared to all the other cryptos out there.
in the future, maybe this can be conveyed in form of a table that compares different cryptos,
and for safecoins it would say:
- billions of transactions per second
- very strong anonymity (no public ledger at all)
- no blockchain bloat (cause no blockchain)
- no 51% attack possible
etc.
safecoin is amazing - so why not say so? 
and lets show off the pretty logo whenever we get the chance
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There was a time when it was better to use GPU for Bitcoin mining than CPU mining because the GPU was faster at doing the hash-calculations. Finally the ASIC’s took over because they could do it even more fast. But guess what, Safecoins don’t have a blockchain and no proof-of-work (creating all these hashes) has to be done. If you want to buy extra hardware for farming Safecoins it probably is better to buy a flashdrive. That way your chunks can be read out much faster and provided if a chunk is requested. That way you have the best chance to farm some coins.
We tried to be objective throughout the paper and this manifests itself by using non sensational and conservative language. I am as bullish and excited by the prospect as anyone, but if we get to carried away the paper risks becoming a one sided and meaningless sales document, when in fact its purpose was to educate. We will promote the significant advantages of safecoin elsewhere. Thanks for the comments!
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The mention of offline cash transactions with a usb drive sounds really amateur / bad.
If you can not trust that the usb was copied without immediately going online, then you clearly are not in the middle of an offline transaction.
SAFE wallets are automatically stored in the users encrypted account information. This has security implications; a hacked computer/password could result in loss of SAFEcoin. This method will allow for offline storage, exactly like Bitcoin. Any user on the network can send directly to this offline wallet, and you can verify that the coin have been transferred without exposing this offline wallet. Trading SAFEcoin via USB has the same risk as Bitcoin, theres always the possibility that the other person “sweeps” the coin with a copy of the key before you do.
I’ve never heard of this feature of the network before, so hopefully I haven’t misunderstood it. I don’t get to see the team in Troon on a daily basis.
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From chapter 6 in the safecoin whitepaper:
The transaction model, described in Section 5, enables safecoin ownership to be transferred. However, it will be possible, after the SAFE Net- work is launched, to mint safecoin in a more physical and anonymous way.
Minting safecoin can be achieved by the net- work enabling the registration of a special trans- action with the transaction managers, that fa- cilitates transfer of the ownship of the coin to any user that acknowledges the transaction. The minting process e↵ectively removes the require- ment for the transaction validation step from the Transaction Manager. When Alice wants to mint safecoin, she sends a special request to Trans- action Managers to create an open transaction without a designated recipient. The Transaction Managers, once they have confirmed by consen- sus that Alice is the current owner, will then generate the transaction. Once Alice receives the transaction name from the network, she can store it on an external storage device, such as a usb drive, together with a special validation signature which has been used as a salt when generating the previous sent request1 .This salt is used to prevent Transaction Managers them- selves trying to acknowledge the transaction to steal the coin.
When Bob receives the minted safecoin and decides he would like to spend them, he reads the transaction name and the validation signature from the storage device and then sends an ac- knowledgement to the network. Once the Trans- action Managers receive the acknowledgement, the pre-generated transaction will be updated, thus completing the transfer of ownership of that coin(s) from Alice to Bob.
The benefit of using safecoin in this way is a reduction in the complexity of the transaction by removing the acknowledgement procedure, mak- ing minted safecoin similar to a cash note. It also means that Alice, in this case, no longer needs to worry about keeping her private key safe as the transaction has been pre generated. Minted safecoin is also more anonymous, eliminating the need to store safecoins only in a digital wallet that can be compromised should an adversory obtain access to a users SAFE Network creden- tials. However, there is risk that after the trans- fer transaction has been registered, if the owner loses the external storage device containing the safecoin(s), anyone will be able to claim owner- ship. However, this is no greater than the risk anyone undertakes when withdrawing cash from a bank, convenience comes at the price of secu- rity.
I coulden’t find the answer anywhere, but what format will a SAFEcoin addresses be/look like?
Can you just enter a name and that is your address or is it like Bitcoin?
BTC Address 124HCHWb5x6typ4jc2qFE5WT85d4ceUsJz
You should just see a number of safecoins and send them to actual human chosen names (public or anonymous ID’s). Users on SAFE should never need to see a hash or long address with the exception of adding a friend/contact which looks like it will be a 10 character address plus a name.
So in general use it’s all contacts and names as opposed to addresses you will use.
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I wonder if this is possible? Let’s say I’ve minted the following SAFEcoin.
And my friend got a SAFEcoin mobile wallet, scans the QRcode. Would it be possible for his mobile wallet to directly communicate through SMS or text to send an acknowledgement to the SAFE Network to claim ownership?
What would also be fun is if you can create an moneylink like so:
https://rushwallet.com/#Maidsafe is the best ever
If you hurry you can become the owner of 2 euro’s.
Last question. When will it be possible to have fragments of a SAFEcoin? (this was probably said before, unfortunately I can’t find it)
0.000000001 SAFEcoins
We are currently implementing the start of the safecoin code (safecoin farming rate) now, but we are not in a position quite yet to look at all the future possibilities for safecoin . Once we are a wee bit further down the road we should be better placed to look at these types of things.
As I recall it was discussed and agreed the safecoins would need to be split, but I don’t believe any specific timing was put forward.
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I’m sorry guys, but if you typed
https://rushwallet.com/#Maidsafe is the best ever
in your browser, you could take the 2 euro’s
I’ve now send the 2 euro’s to Openbazaar
Hmmmm maybe I should have said that it was a brainwallet
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