Safecoin and taxes

I disagree. I don’t want to ban anything but I am against increasing corruption, injustice and inequity. I think SAFE will make it easier to fight crime and injustice. Just like we don’t want to conflate speech and money we don’t want to conflate freedom with injustice.

Suit yourself. You can’t tax anyone on MaidSafe, so there’s no other solution to your dissatisfaction.

You need a Github account in order to work on Github content.

I don’t need you to help with anything, I am just saying there are ways to increase your income and value to the community, rather than just passively observe how unjusted the poor are.

FYI I contribute to several OSS projects I use and have, in small ways, helped them debug and improve their software and documentation. Also, I never complain about developers being more able than I, or about users who just use the software and don’t contribute.


Lol…I only replied to the initial claim that the middle class were suffering an injustice… :smiley:

I know and I replied as to why I thought I may be unable to help.
Good to know you help the OSS community and don’t complain about more able developers or users of OSS software. :smile:

The crazy thing is, governments do not need to tax…at all. The cost of doing government business and public infrastructure can be covered by printing the capital required.


But its a regressive approach, and it also gets the rich more paranoid than they already are. It becomes less regressive if there is an indexed universal guaranteed annual income covered by it as well. Every government that allows an inflation biased system is building in something similar to this type of tax. Maybe this printing approach would also work better with steady state? Psychologically when government comes around taking things every year it causes people to keep their eye on it but it also unfortunately has them thinking of government in business terms and not civic terms. Inflation bias also works a little better psychologically on balance sheets as it cover over obvious loss of momentum. But it also seems like its been possibly the prime means of ending social mobility, reducing wages and labors share of the economy- when labor’s share is by far the most important.

Check out the latest ‘solution’ posts from Martin Armstrong…he’s the only one I know of offering a complete solution to the current predicament…I pasted one of his latest below which is an interesting take on the future.

Trying to Take the Next Step Forward in Economic Evolution

We either back out of this mess with a restructuring to end federal debt and taxes restoring our liberty or this turns into the bloodbath. There is really no choice because you have so many people who believed in government who have no savings to sustain their retirement for they counted on some program or their pension fund has 40%+ government bonds. We have the evolution process of the economy to technology that is a wave of Creative Destruction rendering a large chunk or society unable to make the transition to a different skill set, and the typical way such waves are resolved has been with war which thins the herd.

Robots will eventually replace the military and police right down to Uber Drivers. This is extremely DEFLATIONARY which is part of the current trend as low skill jobs vanish to the peripheral economies. A reset in diminishing the numbers within the herd may be part of the cycle if we are not careful here.


The danger that is on the horizon becomes the control-alt-delete event. That is when one portion of the global economy advances too fast that it loses touch with the basic fundamentals and the whole thing implodes into a Dark Age. Look at it this way. If there was a massive civil unrest to the point normal commerce ceases to move, NYC has 7 days worth of food. Those people will have to leave the cities and rob the suburbs or starve. They lost the knowledge of how to even grow food. With each step in economic evolution we leave critical basics behind. Do you remember the actual phone numbers you call or you just push a button on your cell phone?

This is the risk placed on the table with Marxism for it handed power to government and justified its new role as the manipulator. In the process, the majority of people just assume everything tomorrow will be as it is today for government will protect us.

The Private Wave that peaked in 1929.75 justified the shift to government with the new deal beginning with the low in that wave 1934.05. Gold was confiscated right with that turn. The the CONFIDENCE moved back to government and that Public Wave peaked precisely with the peak in interest rate 1981.35. The low of 1985.65 was the birth of G5 and the Plaza Accord. Government has been fighting to regain control during the Private Wave and the world economy will end with a shift to Asia for 2032.95. There is a huge risk that we will NOT have a new age of technology in the West, but this may be akin to the fall of Rome which our advancements have moved too far too fast like the NSA.

Theories of transitions to new eras abound, but lack the research of such events. When jets were introduced, the bulk of pilots who flew prop planes could not make the transition just as others could not make the transition to computers. The same took place in trading. When screens came out, many old traders left for they could not get use to trading over screens. Changes in technology displace jobs and have typically been marked with DEFLATIONARY trends. Unions overpriced themselves at the docks in NYC and today no ships dock there at all. The unions destroyed their own jobs by their greed.

There was an older woman in her late 50s/early 60s who made a comment in the hallway about my staff – Marty and the girls. From her perspective, I hired only young girls, from my perspective they could handle technology she could not. This I suppose was CNBC said about Hillary that she was too old to understand technology. In this case. the woman would rather characterize this as an age bias rather than admit she lacked the skill set necessary for the computer age.


So indeed, welcome to the obsolete world where Marxism is destroying everything for government assumes it is justified to manipulate society. This is the risk we may not make the next step in the evolutionary process to some world of technology marvels. We cannot make this next transition with government simultaneously chasing loose change. For in their pursuit of money and taxes, they destroy the synergy that is critical to bind society into civilization. Cut those silver cords that bind us together turning everyone against one another (see something say something), and we may not make it to the future.

This is why the most critical step here is to remove government from the aggressor mode. We cannot reach a new age as slaves. So this is a full-blow control-alt-delete which you need to get off the grid, or we can reduce the amplitude of the crash and burn to make it to the next step. You will not get to that next step without addressing government. This is why we must eliminate the debt authority to borrow, taxes to allow society to reestablish the synergy they are destroying, and a debt-equity swap to try to ease the bloodshed and to transfer that capital into a new era to create the next new age.


What do they buy the printers and raw material with?
If the printers and raw material are free, that means anyone would be able to make them and the only edge the government could have related to infrastructure investment would be property theft (landowner expropriation). But then again, the same free machines should be able to print some pretty sophisticated weapons…

If this topic gets discussed long enough, one day you may even manage to answer one or two Mijo_Balic’s questions!


In relation to…?

Cash can be traced. Most cash can be traced back to cocaine actually.

This: “The crazy thing is, governments do not need to tax…at all. The cost of doing government business and public infrastructure can be covered by printing the capital required.”

I thought you were referring to 3D printing. Now I guess you meant fiat.

Yes… definitely not 3D printing :wink:

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Hi Mijo,sorry got distracted from initial question by some initial answers.(as did most others) :smile:
I raised this issue myself in a couple of earlier threads and it appears we have similar concerns. The possible impact would be that tax revenues decline and that Govts begin to cut services/welfare which would affect society’s weak and vulnerable foremost - as these areas are always the first to be cut.
I asked if developers of new technology had an ethical/moral responsibility to consider the likely negative societal impacts when considering how to implement them. Like you, I suggested a way this could be addressed, though rather than a transaction tax (unpopular on here) would involve directing a percentage of farmed coins to a central “community pot”.
As coins are “re-cycled” this could be a permanent ongoing feature and where these funds are directed would be decided by the community (consensus) via a de-centralised voting system. This would involve de-centralising the Foundation or part of it’s function at some future point. It would be important for the percentage to be coded in from the start though I think.
The prevalent thinking on the forum appears to be that technology is neutral, amoral, apolitical etc - I believe I could make a strong case as to why this is not always true though.
I can’t remember the threads this was all on, but chances are I was arguing with Janitor about it. :wink:

Done… :smiley:

@chrisfostertv I suspect that based on history Armstrong doesnt trust gov with retirement funds, or anything else. But zero rate or less retirement that isnt invesment based is retirement that is outside the socialization of cost and risk and it means the rich have skin in the game and wont just be able to flee a collapse with wealth intact, they are the back up fund and they pay up. I think this arrangement reflects their contribution in a society of equals.

How would the debt equity swaps work? Is it what Japan did?

Maybe Martin is underestimating the shift. I think the economy went fake in 1970 and there is no going back. Even with a blood letting the vast majority wont be needed for work but still need to live and will demand quality of life. Something like gold diplomacy will work the alternative is a fight to extinction.

Indeed. Here is an example of what you describe, i think, but i could be wrong. The Bradbury Pound, money issued by the uk treasury as national credit, instead of debt.


Maybe you should add F.A. Hayek’s “The Road to Serfdom” to your reading list to see the connection.


How would that freshly printed money be worth anything without taxes?


I have. If I am not mistaken, of the Austrians he was the most favorable by far to social spending.

Anything from from Rand and a bit of Nozik and Hayek out of context and this super warped view of the world comes forward. This idea about freeing money to be even more destructive led to both world wars and the present instability and decline. We have to look at things like profit eficiency and realize the economy has to work for more than the psychopaths and the very rich.

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It’s only worth the debt that is attached to the printed money and that debt is paid for with stolen capital via taxes.

Edit: I’m sorry I mean patriotically paid via taxes.


If the SAFE network implements a system of plunder whereby a portion of my property (that is SAFE coins that I earned through farming) is redirected to a central “community pot,” I am out of here!!! If you believe that you have an “ethical/moral responsibility” to fund the needy then, by all means, dispose of and donate voluntarily your property (that which you earned) to whatever causes you deem worthy. Leave me out of it.


With no taxes, that debt would effectively be written off.

In other words, all taxes are to pay an alleged public debt, as far as the state is concernered. Whether the debt is short or long term doesn’t change this dynamic much.