SAFE Network storage abuse

I was not sure on which category to put it but “issue” or “abuse” would be appropriate. It’s not a cyber attack but an abuse on the network. For now I just want to test it on the test network and find if that abuse really work. I don’t really want to tell what it is here because I think it’s really an important one and I don’t want people to do it. What I hope is I will be able to test it with fake safecoin when the test network with storage available will be released. Because if it’s going to be with real safecoin, if I’m true, it’s going to be a real mess.

I trust the team but I don’t know who they are, so far the only one I trust is @dirvine and if he want me to tell what is it I would prefer to be in PM and if he want to me to tell it here I will do.


OK fine! Lack of transparency is never good. Let’s play a guess game instead. Here is my clue: With what do you think I will farm?

lol. You’re gonna mine safecoins with some technique I don’t know what. You might use raid5 with btrfs? That would allow hotswapping.

Safecoin is still not build, I assumed? Based on the road map, end of dev2, there will be testing for safecoins.

IMO, publish your thoughts, so that the devs could prepare ahead. But if you really want to make your point, then wait until safecoin is in testing stages. If you do this, you may prolong the research for improvements.


With plough and a horse upgrading to a tractor after a while :smile:


Respectively, allowing two to three hours for someone to ask you to expose an issue is not being serious about the issue. How can you expect people to jump, if you are not forthcoming with at least an indication of the issue which would show the seriousness.

You have to give them time, the devs are not on the forum 24/7. They are working hard, sleeping and other things too. Its Sunday too.


Since the network does not yet exist, I don’t see how this risk could be important if it were to be disclosed right now.

Of course responsible disclosure is better, but you’re making this sound like you’ve discovered a security bug in an on-line nuclear power plant.


You create a post a Sunday, 5:09am and you expect an answer almost intermediately?

And who are you to underestimate the Maidsafe team?

If you think you’ve found a bug in the SAFE network, which I doubt very much, send a PM to the team, but your post, and his tone, is completely needless.


Don’t worry. Nobody can do it, we’re in development, there isn’t any net yet.
Maybe you don’t tell what it is because you assume that your “issue” doesn’t have any solution. I reckon that now is time to tell what it is. Later can be too late.


Sorry I was drunk and I have a tendency to post stupid thing sometime. But what I found is at the design itself and not the code level. I’m surprise no one still found it. So here it is.

How do you prevent someone to farm with the SAFE Network itself?

You buy storage from the SAFE Network and you start a vault directly pointed to the NFS.


I think you could, but not profitably. You’d bankrupt yourself, basically.

In case you wanted to farm 1TB of usable by placing it on SafeNet, you’d have to buy the same amount from the network.
Assuming you’re just as efficient as the guy(s) who you’re buying from, you can’t ever do it profitably. Whatever coins you get for providing that space, you’d have to pay out to buy it, so at most you’d belabor for free.

From a technical perspective, though, you can’t count on the perfect reliability of your connection to the network so you would need to have a local cache, which means you’d need to allocate 1TB of local HDD space first and on top of that also buy 1TB of capacity on the network. You’d really go bust faster than Greece.


Why prevent it? It’s pointless, you’re paying to store data and being rewarded for serving it up when asked. Over time you will lose out, so you have no incentive for doing this.

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Let say I want more free space over time. I start with 1 TB locally and for each MaidSafe I made I buy storage to the network. Now I point that storage with the vault. The storage bough is for the life time. With that I’m able to farm more safecoin by tricking the system. And I again I buy more storage until I’m satisfied. Nothing prevent me to delete the data that I own on the network and start using it for something else. It’s an abuse to boost the farming in a dishonest manner.

It’s not a trick :wink: It’s exactly how it works. You will then farm over the network data capacity which you grew along with others. Farming is not a fixed rate in any way it’s dependent on supply/demand and existing storage. It’s the way it is supposed to be, so don’t worry :slight_smile:


You make me laugh like always but in the same time I want to hide my head in a brown bag …

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You don’t understand farming - for example, yes, it’s a one off payment to store, but you don’t get the space back by deleting the data. So you can’t farm more than you pay for.

Are you sure about that?

Yes it’s true. There will be deletable data at some stage, but it will be more expensive than normal data. Deletable data will be unique to you (signed) so you can delete it. More expensive as the cost to the network is higher.


Aha, so there is a plan to implement deletable data now. I think this will make the network more appealing to some users. Even if there are several layers of encryption, I believe that some will only sleep well if they know that the information is completely deleted once it has fulfilled its purpose.


I moved 12 posts to a new topic: Deletable Data, and Secure uses for Structured Data

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I moved a post to an existing topic: Deletable Data, and Secure uses for Structured Data