So very many definitions of Alpha.
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Certainly a different project with the same outcome for investors.
To clarify the wording and where we are at. At present, we have not provided the core functionality as we have still to provide persistent data. This is the last piece of the puzzle before we would be in alpha, and trust me, we will let you know when we get there 
as we will be shouting it from the roof tops.
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The above discussion is way off topic and should be moved. Returning to SEC:
@maidsaferocks said:
[Daniel] has now stated that he wonāt be delivering what was promised in the crowdsale.
Thatās a serious allegation, and IMO completely untrue.
What I read (in the topic linked in the OP) is that Daniel canāt deliver until SAFEnetwork is ready. So in the mean time he is working on delivering the same functionality independent of SAFEnetwork, and will also support SAFEnetwork as per the crowdsale when that becomes possible.
I donāt know if this is feasible, but I think that if it is then it is sensible and in the interests of investors.
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Itās extremely difficult to decipher what Daniel has planned (if anything) at this point. But what heās proposing does not seem to resemble what was originally presented and his exchange will instead āintegrate safecoinā once the SAFE network is available. Iām guessing my other points donāt concern you either:
What concerns me is when someone posts serious allegations without foundation, and surrounds them with similar points which seem to be more about an agenda than objective commentary.
Is there anything you like about this project? Or Daniel?
Itās easy to take sides, easy to pick holes, etc. We see it all the time.
Iām not saying I donāt have any concerns, or that Daniel is doing things exactly how I would like - but I can also imagine things from his point of view. Few people who comment so negatively as you have ever been in such a position, or put themselves on the line, tried to create something. When youāve done that, then you can make an informed commentary and donāt need to make statements that are untrue to support your position.
Thereās room for improvement everywhere. Maybe Daniel is trying to do too much right now, maybe heās not considered his community as well as he might, but that is no reason to spread false claims or make out this is a disaster for anyone. That remains to be seen and so far I donāt see any reason to think that - on the contrary, it seems like Daniel is thinking about how to make something successful even if SAFEnetwork is much longer emerging than weād like. I like that.
Why exactly would anyone make such a false claim, or make out this is a disaster based on that and a one sided interpretation of some observations? Is it just trolling or is it for some hidden agenda?
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A whole lot of out of proportion here. Iāve begun network programming itās true. Iām āswitching gearsā from just only building some crypto and UI to now delving into new fields. The obstacles to overcome that Maidsafe proposes are well known issues in computing such as unilateral NAT traversal (which maybe not all cases need to be covered to still succeed with the network); with persistence I think that those issues will find adequate solutions. Until recently it has not been something I had not been focusing my attention to.
Not jumping ship more like: adding to the hands on the deck. How else to do that? I am writing a network as well and it could lead to breakthroughs that have an impact.
I think that if there is a successful launch it will be not just people here shouting about the accomplishment, but many others (developers with customers) because of the effect it could have for all developers.
In terms of forum discussion, I think cursing would be the least of oneās worries. It used to be trying to filter development discussions from speculation and banter.
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Thanks @dallyshalla. Can you give some more info on what kind of network you are building? Is it Kademlia like? Fully encrypted? Freenet like? I guess you want support for smart contracts as well???
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I donāt remember this being the case and donāt think itās the job of anyone here to do this kind of filtering. Speculation is pretty healthy if you ask me. We might learn from things that cause a bit of chaos. Perhaps you could have gone about explaining things a bit differently. Iām watching and trying to learn too in all this. Unfounded allegations suck and probably require some defense on behalf of those the allegations are brought up against, but Iām guessing one could waste a ton of time doing this and not focusing on getting the actual work done. Both speculations and allegations bring things out in the open and lets us debate the validity of the different sides.
I understand there is a balance between being strategic and being completely open and transparent. Iām willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while. Iām still excited about a decentralized distributed exchange and hope you can pull it off.
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@happybeing Iām presenting facts and my own interpretation of them. It sounds like youād prefer I kept this information to myself instead of sharing it with the community here which seems like a strange desire on a forum such as this. I think @chadrickm said it best:
May information flow freely.
BTW what is the āfalse claimā youāve accused me of making?
Iām pretty sure this is what @happybeing is referring to?
Just trying to be helpful and point some things out hereā¦
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Why donāt you formally join the team or help make commits to the maid safe github repository if your end game is to get the exchange and an anonymous network up and going? Maybe Iām over simplifying but one man building an anonymous network compared to a collaborative effort just seems less feasible. Yes the network will take awhile but with the network soon at alpha canāt you test against a local network and make good progress. Just seems like a strange time to back out considering all of the recent tests
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Maidsafe went through 3 rebuilds, and now safenet is getting so close to alpha stage. 10 years of developmentā¦
I2P has been developing for 13 years.
Tor has been developing for 16 years.
Freenet has been developing for 16 years.
Do you really think you can release it before end of this year or next year with new functionality?
I donāt get itā¦ Why back off and start building a new network? Iām not trying bash against you, or your team. Iām just trying understand your school of thought.
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Whatever man! The original question had to do with release dates. āCan you name any project that has gone several years after release announcement before actually getting the product out, and still have proven successful?ā You seriously canāt think of any project that has had release dates over several years? Why even ask the question in the first place? Also your question had no mention that it had to do with technology. So I thought of the most prominent example I could think of that fit the criteria of your question, also as a side thing realizing that being such a huge name likely is coming with new technologies by innovative developers to impress everyone not solely with art (I actually donāt know, was an assumption, yet still fits your questionās criteria). Your tone is terrible as a human being. Maybe lighten up a little without sacrificing your coveted godlike knowledge of everything ārealistic.ā (Thatās my sarcastic hyperbole. Now I have reciprocated guilt of toneā¦ self-defensive and all that.)
This project is obviously way different from anything else out there, canāt really rely on historical precedent, but rather realize a new one being set (of course while still under control of the follies/unpredictability of development), especially in the field of cryptocurrencies which has had its fair share of shortcomings. Irvine has expressed confidence in the unexplored nature of this project since the start; obviously heās matrix-envisioned solutions to many problems from the get-go, given his intricate knowledge of P2P/networking componentsāapparent from his very first presentation near 2006 (on YouTube somewhere).
We have let this bop back and forth between subjects. Letās try to keep this thread about SafeX and make another if you feel you want to talk about the future of Safe.
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I think people are too scared to make a thread with a title as bold as āIs MaidSafe ever going to actually come out?ā
Thatās why they keep just posting here instead
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Maybe I should do it for them and stick all the applicable posts in thereā¦
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The purpose of this thread is to distract attention from the problems some other project is having: āLetās make the discussion all about SAFE! Nothing to see over here.ā
Itās like when a state is having economic problems, they discover a foreign enemy to agitate for war against.
Itās quite cynical, and it has worked, bringing out trolls and anonymous commentators from who knows what vested interests.
The topic should really be on the other projectās forum.
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Hey Daniel @dallyshalla
Andā¦
Iāve really got to say, Daniel, this is some pretty impregnable logicā¦
I think working with MaidSafe to get their version of the anonymous network finished, makes much more sense & logic than starting a whole new version from scratch, which has taken teams of the greatest minds at least a decade to overcome.
Hey I feel ya, Iām a young 20-something also, just like you and @Seneca etc, so I know that inner drive that tells us we can do anything, but you gotta realize your limits man.
These guys working on this are 30, 40, 50 etc, and have decades of networking experienceā¦ each!! And they are working in teams!! And it still takes them decades!! not saying I donāt believe in you, but I gotta say honestly I donāt think you can crack it in any competitive time frame. Just help them man, they have a huuuuge head start and resources.
In the end itās all just about bringing SAFEx to life anyway, right?
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if safex doesnāt live on the safenet i donāt see why i should ever use it ā¦ i loved the idea of safex as soon as i heard of it; but without being a part of safenet it just is another openbazaar, bitmarkets or one of those 842375982 darknet markets ā¦ (only with the difference that the programmer is a guy that took the crowdsale money to do it differently than promised and without any vote by the investors or even noticing them about this switch in advance ā¦[switching sometimes is very important ā¦ but i personally donāt see the huge benefits for now+only see the high risk])
sorry i know this is not the kindest way to put it but i donāt think this decision is a wise move ā¦ of course that is only my personal opinion ā¦ 
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