RFC - Decentralised Naming System V - No DNS

[bugsbunny]

instead of letting companies abuse you with advertise and play with your brain, the brain and human shopping impulses will be limited to only what is truly needed to be bought by that person

[happybeing]

@Artiscience

Since the naming system is not part of the SAFE protocol it cannot be resolved in the browser without a correspondent plugin

I think multiple naming systems could be supported as part of the protocol, and made available without a separate app or browser plugin (other than the safe plugin of course). I described such a scheme here DNS VI (like TLDs)

[Traktion]

@bugsbunny

no branding. no outsideworld bitching. no squatting. same treatment for everybody. no greed. no favors. no run for registering fancy addresses. it will be all about the content that the site provide, not about the brand. just like a phone number, you don’t have to memorize it. you keep it bookmarked somewhere. it will be the same for future generations, without the stress that ‘easy and good’ names are already taken. hard to advertise (i personally consider advertising a bad thing, because if you truly offer good services, the customers will find you, not vice-versa). freedom lovers will love

Nice ideal, but it won’t stop people building DNS on top of it.

DNS didn’t come about because you couldn’t type in an IP address; it came about so that you didn’t have to. It is useful to have a memorable name and this won’t change, even with excellent search engines.

Moreover, the idea that because some may pay for a precise name, no one should have a precise name is concerning for me. We really don’t want to reduce usability, just to level the playing field. Dragging everything down to the same level will make the network worse, not better, IMO.

I think the approach of being able to freely name at the native level is good. Even if they can’t get the ideal precise name, they can at least choose words which have meaning and are memorable. As long as there is a layer above, subject to market forces (or even alternative forces, if desirable), then we can have the best of both worlds, IMO.

[neverending_manga]

I feel obligated to point out that if the SAFEnetwork goes for the no DNS natively approach, the competiting DNS services could and likely would have their respective DNS services set up like the top-level domains of the current internet, with each DNS having it’s own “TLD” so that the people don’t have to juggle between DNS services manually/locally.

[bugsbunny]

@Traktion

DNS didn’t come about because you couldn’t type in an IP address; it came about so that you didn’t have to.

this is something only the tech people know. i am sure and almost can guarantee you that over 80% of people using the internet do not know this. GUARANTEE with big letters. having said this, one could argue that with no built in DNS, people could become more aware of how the computers work, thus we can create a better and more intelligent world. the easy way is often a bad way
in another post i asked for a pyramid of priorities, because one may put the user friendlyness in front of the same rights for everyone(no matter the time of birth inside the network), for example

[catbert]

@Artiscience

1. I generate an address which is a random hash vmfv324k32rmflcqs01ri3432e11rd (or even longer). This is my native address. Everything beyond is NOT done within the SAFE protocol as @jreighley suggests
2. I relate the address to a Naming System and give it a human-readable name. This affords me to provide a private key to authentificate me as the owner

Yes.

@Artiscience

3. Since the naming system is not part of the SAFE protocol it cannot be resolved in the browser without a correspondent plugin

This proposal does not mandate any implementation details. Code for accessing DNS systems can be both part of SAFE browser or added via a plugin.

@Artiscience

I am IBM. in two of the DNS “ibm” is already registered. I contact both owners. One 100,000 $ I pay. The other is dead

This is how I would like it to work:

• I google for “IBM” and click the first result which is 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7
• my address bar goes 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7, I hover it
• information provided by website owner is displayed:
  IBM, a US IT company, street address:...
• information provided by my favourite web-of-trust app is displayed:
  34678 people are highly confident the info above is correct
• I click Bookmark icon, name suggestion appears: ibm, I accept
• from now on when I type imb.my I’m taken to 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7

So the gist of it is: No DNS If I switch DNS on only one thing changes: instead of 6sgjmi53igmg7fm7 I see smth. like ibm.business.easyjohnnyregistry which is promtly replaced with ibm.my after I have creaed the bookmark.

Now back to your challenge: $100k and dead owner. Tough. Guess my answer is

• make DNS as unimportant as possible (see above)
• try many alternative DNS designs, maybe somebody will find an answer

I believe in sharing personal bookmarks. Each bookmark collection is a micro-DNS. But there could be better options. So I’d rather have different DNS implementations tried. And I wouldn’t be surprised if different people ended up preferring different ones.

@Artiscience

While I believe that collective bookmarking systems could (and - given this solution - would still be able to) do the same with a plugin, I personally believe that having a basic decentralized protocol that allows to find agreement about how to resolve a native address throughout the network would workout better for most users.

A very important point. Two alternative views:

###A

• there’s no hope to get SAFE DNS right on the first attempt
• there’s no hope one DNS will satisfy everybody
• so let’s do without a DNS or have many of them

###B

• DNS system X is great
• so let’s concentrate all efforts on X

As you can probably conclude I feel more inclined towards (A). However other people may disagree.

[smacz]

@neverending_manga

I feel obligated to point out that if the SAFEnetwork goes for the no DNS natively approach, the competiting DNS services could and likely would have their respective DNS services set up like the top-level domains of the current internet, with each DNS having it’s own “TLD” so that the people don’t have to juggle between DNS services manually/locally.

It also may be an option in any given browser to “switch between” DNS providers. The ease of this could provide a highly competitive market for DNS companies.

[catbert]

@Seneca

Just to be clear, this concept has essentially the same principles as GNUnet’s “delegated” DNS (Petname system)?

Spot on. One alteration has been made though:

• GNS only supports local bookmarks + local bookmars of other users
• I think SAFE can support local bookmarks + any future DNS implementation

In GNS when you type abc.def it means that

• you have your own bookmark def pointing to somebody else’s bookmark collection
• you want to use bookmark abc from that other collection

I think RFC for SAFE could be more general and say that abc.def means

• you have chosen to use some naming system X under the name of .def
• name abc will be resolved against X

[catbert]

@bugsbunny

as for the ever debated advertising on buses or whatever, a possible client that INDEED and TRULY needs your services, will run after that bus to note down your address, because you advertised on the bus: ‘safe:4536478yf87eyfuhf48 → the best place where you could buy hairdryers’

I wouldn’t mind less advertisement on the streets However my present solution is this:

• the ad on the bus has a URL pointing to a page on today’s internet
• that page has a native link (6sgjmi53igmg7fm7) to a website on SAFE

WWW is perfectly suited for the task. Let’s turn it into a network of landing pages for SAFE!

[anon81773980]

Why not use QR code…

[smacz]

I think the assumption is that the person has no tech on them, and has to only remember with their brain where to go.

[anon81773980]

Ah okay, I’m with catbert on his statement three post above.

To connect to the right person using the 20th century problem, you need to know which micro-dns you want to connect to. Pull out your pencil, write it down.

safe:smacz.somedudeproduct

[smacz]

If a micro-dns choice is integrated into the browser, it would be the browser’s decision what to call it (as opposed to another micro-dns). That micro-dns, whatever search they use (linkedin-type user indexing, app search, search engine indexing blog/forum content), you would utilize that.

Otherwise, any micro-dns service is only globally unique based on their key, and now we’re back to the same problem!

[catbert]

@anon81773980

To connect to the right person … you need to know which micro-dns you want to connect to. Pull out your pencil, write it down safe:smacz.somedudeproduct

@smacz

any micro-dns service is only globally unique based on their key, and now we’re back to the same problem!

Hi guys, actually that’s exactly how I see it. Each (micro-)dns is indeed only globally unique on its key. Each user is free to choose which of them to use.

(I would like him to be able to use multiple, each under its own pseudo-tld like .easyjohnnyregistry, .official)

This is why we have the “billboard” or “bus problem”. And that is why I suggest that the bus or billboard will use a link to a landing page on WWW which would in turn have a (native) link to a SAFE website.

[Artiscience]

[quote=“catbert, post:46, topic:5093”]
Now back to your challenge: $100k and dead owner. Tough. Guess my answer is

make DNS as unimportant as possible (see above)
try many alternative DNS designs, maybe somebody will find an answer[/quote]

Actually I don´t see the problem anymore. So I am the IBM guy, created a native address and assigned some basic information to that address, e.g. a short form “ibm” and some basic information “IBM, a US IT company, street address:…”

Case A: You do the exact same to scam some of my customers. However your page has a much lower reputation. When people enter “ibm” into their browser they receive a page with two entries, yours and mine. Since my reputation is higher, people will enter my page.

Case B: Another ibm was registered before but the owner is dead. In this case Case A works exactly the same: I will take care when advertising to add some catchy slogan that differs me from the dead domain and after some time my reputation will be higher as the unused domain.

Case C: There are hundreds of businesses calling themselves ibm (could happen particular when the brand name is a popular surname). This will be a big disadvantage for smaller ibm enterprises. Their brand will not be very sustainable if my reputation is higher. Still users can find me, e.g. if I use a catchphrase which is genuine and assign me to their bookmark.

Really like the idea. The only thing I don´t like is that you suggest that searching for domains is “googling” for them

[anon81773980]

Necro threaded (620 days).

I decided to take some time to look into Ethereum development, it’s been a year since I looked at it… I’m quite impressed on how far they have gone in a year.

I want to show you guys the latest update about Ethereum Name service. It is quite identical to what maidsafe uses right now. First come, first serve, with betting domains. Look at the prices for each domain… Quite ridiculous. Only rich pays the brand. If people do not like pornhub, and want to use different service, but still rather call it pornhub…

We can review each of the 256 addresses through web of trust system. Names isn’t that important.

Pet name system is another way to reduce the cost of buying a domain name. It’s free, as in free beer. What’s not to like?

CodeTract - Token Launch

[Traktion]

Do you have a link for sale price history?

I have long thought that if maidsafe ignore this business model, someone else will cash in on it. That would be a huge shame.

[anon81773980]

If you click the last link, it’ll show you the highest sale in ENS history, and most popular bid.

And here’s another link for more details.

Ethereum Name Service | Etherscan

Say…I search for satoshi.

Here’s the bidding history on that particular name

Ethereum Name Service Lookup | Etherscan