How about first year after launch? Maybe there would be bigger chance to get farmed most safecoins?
I think It’s still worth to buy some equipment to farm because safecoin price should increase in a few years so much…
I mean I suppose it depends on what route going to do, if you plonked 1000x Cyrix 486DX2-80 cpus on the network with TBs of storage each, then you’ll decrease the reward per unit?
I’m think I will use a cheap single board computer (C.H.I.P or RPi or similar) with a drive that I have spare and let it run 24/7 and also have my PC run a vault 18/7 so I can turn off my PC at night. The PC draws many times more power than a SBC. The SBC draws a few watts only and the Harddrive a few only as well. Much better than the 100-200+ watts the PC draws.
But no problems simply using ones PC or laptop and the spare storage it has.
Nah, they cannot do a bitcoin. Different dynamics and economic models and the incentive isn’t there. But in any case the rest of the world would swamp what the chinese did in terms of farming. Replace China with any other country since no country can dominate farming even if they try.
I know what you mean but even 1000x with TBs would not do much after the network has gotten out of the baby stage, It will take a lot more to compete with millions and millions of people running vaults with a TB or more.
I can see that there will be an initial rush of people running vaults in the initial stages and very little actual data stored on the network, so price will be super low, like million or more TB per coin until farmers decide that they are over supplying and they remove some of their vaults since they aren’t earning from them. Once this initial oversupply reduces there will come a point at which it is actually profitable to farm. Then human nature and people add tons more storage and the farming rate plummets again. Repeat and rinse until the data stored on the network increases to the point that 10% added storage is not enough to plummet the price and there comes that balance of data stored to resources supplied producing a suitable farming rate for the farmers. At which time the algorithm works as intended. As more data is stored farming rate rises, then farmers supply more vaults and price drops again and this cycle repeats.
5 Likes
Won’t the natural inclination be for one to set up a vault then step back and let it do its thing for, maybe, several weeks or even months without regard to the “whims and vagaries” of the market-adjustment mechanism built into the network? Will the fact that farmers might not react as quickly as the network would like them to react, in regards to whether they stop farming temporarily, be problematic?
Unless the Chinese, Russians (insert your own special farming group here) jump into the fray on a massive scale, before the millions in the general population adopt Safe Network. That would be an interesting dynamic. Could the fledgling network recover from this kind of early assault?
You overestimate the ability of any one group to amass >50% of the harddrives to build a farm system with >40% of the vaults. Yet even 50% would not be enough as mentioned in the other topic. By the time any group tried to buy up the drives the other people in the world would be screaming for harddrives just for normal use and manufacturers don’t want to see a communist/dictatorial country/group taking all the drives. The price simply rises for the cost of drives due to shortages and destroy the financial ability of any one group to buy enough.
World economics, political, population would not allow (make possible) for such a group to amass enough drives to cripple SAFE.
Then we could talk of bandwidth, there is only so much bandwidth available out of any one country.
And before mentioning the USA or western country, they would have to become a dictatorship in order to try such a thing and control their people that way. But even then the USA does not have the financial ability against the rest of the whole world.
Don’t lose sight that there is no group/country large enough to do such a thing.
But yes if a large enough group with power, money and resources existed then it could cripple SAFE, but fortunately there isn’t any group that would come close.
You’re assuming the rate of Safe Network adoption by the masses (the network’s “heat shield”) will be relatively speedy after the launch. What if that turns out not to be true (nobody really knows for sure)? What if a large group of professional farmers, maybe even located on different continents, had enough foresight and resources to set up a pre-launch conglomerate of organized and coordinated powerful farming devices designed to overwhelm the protective design of the network while still in its infancy? Would it be possible for them to seize control in some way, or at least retard the “natural” growth of the network?
I understand this is inconceivable once the network becomes widespread, on millions of individual, unrelated devices around the world, but what if, for a period of several days, right after the launch, this rogue group accounted for, say, 90% of all farming efforts? How long would it take the “natural, or neutral” group of farmers to catch up and counteract this imbalance? Is it possible that during this time the rogue group could set up steps that would prevent its operation from being “dethroned”? Bear with me, I’m trying to think of the worst case scenario here. Best to be prepared for the most unlikely event in the case of such a monumental, game-changing technology wave like the Safe Network.
While the network is small it is at risk from many attacks. Plain and simple
So yes in that case it could be subverted. But then not many have lost much since SAFE is not in widespread use.
But for a group to feel threatened by SAFE one has to assume that it has reached a sufficient size to be threat. And then once a group starts to so this then others will work against that. Human nature does not want to see a group like that take over.
1 Like
Or for a group of people to be as convinced as the members of this forum are that Safe Network will be game-changing and that “control” could be very, very rewarding down the road.
They would have to make their move to hurt SAFE before the network grew too large then. Once it exceeds 20-30% larger than their collective vaults size/number then they cannot control it
2 Likes
Id think the rogues are likeliest to be the established already
like the goog gates and zuckers and throw in the alphabets in utah who hoover up everything they can.
all of those have a LOT to lose
and a sh*tload of resources to throw at competitors
as seen already with the dark webs being hounded(some deserved/ maybe some not)
I understand the darkside is still using “oldnet” but the actions against newcomers will probably be just as nasty and fast
Maybe its premature for the likes of myself to be present here really, Essentially I’m like a 3 year old asking ‘what are you doing nowwwwwww’ I suppose…
you and me both:-)
Maidsafe kindy page or Maidsafe for Dummies would be really useful… err actually i got Linux for Dummies and ended near tears so maybe not? some of just dont have math or code skillsets.
I just watched the new post vid clip on the raising funds for coins i got to 8mins and gave up its waaay confusing to anyone who doesnt program.
im no wiser and 8 mins poorer. rrgh.
and i still cant find anywhere showing what price a coin would cost?
we really need to have some coin I assume to be able to use the service while waiting for farming fiunds coming in?
and what ability do we have to control the useage data wise of allowing storage?
ie i only have a 50gig a month allowance before getting rude charges, if i use an avg of 7 gig or less a month theres 40 roughly available. i pay $1 au per gig to the provider.it appears the payment for farming isnt going to be close to the outlay i spend?
You will be specifying the size of your vault either in % of disk spare or number of GBs
But you do not get to pick and choose which chinks are stored. Would be silly option since you have no way to know what is in the chunks
But the bandwidth usage will include node comms, caching of chunks, transferring chunks as they hop through the network. So no matter the size of your vault the node will be doing a reasonable amount data transfer apart from your vault storage.
BUT you can use SAFE browsing sites receiving mail, posting stuff on SAFE’s social media without running a vault. So without a vault the usage will be similar to what you have now with the internet
Valid concerns Ken, and marketing will no doubt play a part in this. Clearly adoption will take time. Some will get it sooner: the value to them of disrupting their existing activity and paying or farming for something that was previously, not free, but a shady proposition that you never got to know the cost of.
Most won’t see this at all, but my sense is a lot will but still not move just because of it. But who knows!
Remember the Internet is all I can say. I remember getting it, realising (in the eighties) how much better email was, and how amazing email based discussion groups and newsnet news were. Thinking what a shame it was I could only communicate with a tiny section of the world this way because everyone else was still using post, fax if you were lucky, and even for long distance telex. But it all changed over time.
The Web and particularly webmail was a massive driver, and I expect similar innovation and usability shifts that we can’t yet envisage driving adoption of the SAFEnetwork.
Remember hotmail, for example? A relatively modest technical achievement, but which powered mass adoption of email and drove individuals and businesses to get on the internet when dialup was the clunky, unreliable way to get connected. Which in turn drove better connections, pushed prices down, etc etc.
I envisage a similar process with this new platform. Somebody, maybe not even on this forum yet, will build something like hotmail, or Facebook, and people - the masses - will flock to it.
3 Likes
That’s the beauty of buying as many Maidsafe coins as you can now. By the time the man in the street starts to understand it, they will say “why didn’t I buy this a few years ago”.
yeah thats a big reason I and some friends of mine will swap over. Im the mug asking the annoying Qs so i can then answer them:-)
i dont use the usual engines for searches and black tracking and ads as much as possible, dont use the freemails etc wont touch facepalm or stuff, but even using ebay/gumtree stuffs a lot of privacy attempts up because= who bought them out-n paypal etc
and its why i kept Xp running though i dont mind 7 im not feeding gates and i sure wouldnt use 8 or 10 if he paid me!
and yes i have to install Linux obviously, but i find swapovers hard and have files n stuff i need to save
4 Likes
not meaning to be rude BUT…you have to be joking?!
the universe i live in makes insanity like bitcoins cost utterly UNaffordable in any way shape or form.
lets just say on an income scale I and most of my friends are right at the very bottom ,bordering on or actually povertyline.
I’m pretty sure a lot of others also just get by and things like that would make it impossible to be a part of maidsafe at all.
and again
I tried to follow bitcoin n wallets n stuff years ago when it started to get press
damned if i did then or now have the ability to work it out or use it.
a small detail on bitcoin in Aus is the govt is now moving to try n follow n tax it and control it.
small items on it trickling into the msm news last week
thank you;-)
and where do i find the requirements of ones pc to be suitable?
im running a dump recovery self repaired emachine with only 1gig ram and 160HD
i bet it wont be suitable somehow?
rofl:-)
The aim is to allow very low powered devices as we go along, so initially perhaps not. But this is a target, it has to be to get the network to everyone in the world.
2 Likes
I’m not getting your thinking here because you can buy any amount of bitcoin you like. The cost the bitcoin transaction fees (say 2 x $10 to get your bitcoin and send it to an ICO)., plus whatever amount you want to buy. So the more you buy the less the relative cost of the fees, but you can still buy $100 in something you expect to go up a lot, which is in reach of a lot of people who are not ‘rich’.
I’m not saying anyone should, just challenging the idea that bitcoin is too expensive to be a route to buy SafeCoin, or anything else.
3 Likes