Thanks for your input Krekc - very useful.
1 Like
Indeed, they (Simon Dixon) did.
It is censorship - and is very worrying. That is why I think one of our official representatives should be communicating with BTTF/Dixon - Irvine would be best because he is the one who signed the contracts with BTTF, but Bux would be great too.
I donāt trust BTTF - their track record w.r.t. MaidSafe is dodgy - bitCache too (Kim Dotcomās āenterpriseā).
1 Like
I see BTTF owns only 1.8% of MaidSafe.net Ltd
But more worryingly, it shows the shareholder as just āBank To The Futureā. What is that even? Seems very vague. No clue as to what entity that actually is.
I would have expected a name with SPC appended to it as I thought the shares in MaidSafe were held in a separate entity of which investors held shares.
I havenāt seen the prospectus. Am just killing time investigating while waiting for a plane.
2 Likes
I understand this is public information but why make it that little bit easier for the other ānormalā people to be identified and targeted by some mutt syndicate scanning the forum in a few years.
They are for the most part good people from a small part of the world where they can be found pretty easilyā¦
1 Like
As you say, itās public info. If itās linked here to companies house, wtf does it matter?
You think crooks dont know that company info is publicly available? And has been for like forever?
Not sure what you are trying to say here.
Could you clarify?
Thereās still a message board, they just moved it but if you go to the pitch you should be able to find it (if logged in and holding an investment in the pitch. I posted there to ask them to post the update and to request them to communicate with MaidSafe about token distribution.
Their site is really wonky and response often doesnāt even come, so not holding my breath to be honest.
1 Like
If BTTF is the shareholder of MaidSafe.net Ltd, those who bought into the SPC only own a claim on those shares.
If BTTF goes down, your shares go with it. The claim becomes worthless as the assets are pilfered by lawyers, authorities and other creditors ranked higher than the SPC.
2 big IFsā¦ maybe nothing to be concerned about. But you need to know who actually owns the shares in MaidSafe.net Ltd - the official doc is hazy.
2 Likes
Itās an SPV where you have a share of the SPV. I think itās not a shady construction and weāll get our share minus their usual fee (which is 5% to the best of my knowledge). Not sure how you come to 1.8% if they pitched 6,25% for 2,5m and raised 1,6m. Should be closer to 4% unless it was diluted in a later fundraiser that MaidSafe did. Maybe @dirvine or someone else from MaidSafe can shed some light on that.
1 Like
I think BTTF is fine financially, they really made bank during the last bull run and Simon isnāt stupid. No need to scare people here, weāre going to get our share of the tokens.
2 Likes
Look at the doc. 36k shares out of about 2mm
Ok would be good to get some insight on that from MaidSafe then or post a question about it on the BTTF forum.
Thank you for clarifying, Astroman - appreciated.
As I say, I will only sleep well once I have received my coins/tokens/shares from this dodgy operation - BTTF / Simon Dixon.
Yes, I would appreciate a little more involvement from MaidSafe - not forgetting that Irvineās signature is on the documents signed with BTTF / Simon Dixon and wife - - - - - I only got involved with this BTTF / Simon Dixon thing because I have met David and trust him - I got involved based on that trust.
1 Like
To be fair I donāt think they are a dodgy operation as in they are out to screw anyone over. Yeah their site is outdated and their customer service is slow and lacking, but so far I havenāt seen them screw people over. If anything they are too strict regulation wise if you ask me.
2 Likes
They may well be. But I would think that the shares held by the SPV which is an independent company would hold the shares in its own name.
From their FAQs the SPC is BTTF themselves and not the SPVs they set up for investors in other companies
If someone has the name of the SPV company then they could prob find the maidsafe shareholding by the SPV
Lotās of speculation in this thread and some kinda wild almost accusations. (not from you @Runswick I just clicked reply 
)
In my opinion the SPV was a vehicle that allowed folk to invest in a % of MaidSafe, I donāt have the numbers, but it was not a huge %. The numbers though are lodged and accounted for, so whatever they are, they are.
If that SPV thing āwent downā then I am not sure of the legal ramifications, but I would imagine MaidSafe the company would do everything it could to ensure any investor of any kind in the project was protected.
I know some folk will now demand some written legal document countersigned by God and Zeus, but that is the wrong route. The correct route is to do the right thing and I have never seen anyone in MaidSafe suggest otherwise, it would not work for us 
I also believe such an event like the SPV collapse would mean the shares went directly to the purchasers. At least they should by rights, but again, not legal advice.
I will say, anything I am involved in will always do what it can within the law to protect people, after all is that not what the whole project is about 
So no firm guarantees, no legal agreements, no court action, no class action suite and so on, just doing the right thing and there are plenty of options for that to happen in a clear manner. If there is a list of shareholders in the SPV with num shares per holder, then itās easy for the token distribution to go direct. That is just an example, but I am sure there are lots of ways to make sure people are not left high and dry or facing some prolonged legal issues and claims.
19 Likes
Hi David, i wasnāt making accusations. I just pulled up the shareholders list from companies house and saw the registered shareholder as Bank To The Future. This could represent any BTTF entity. But as the info from @Runswick suggests the shareholder is in fact a BTTF MaidSafe SPC.
A Segregated Portfolio Company is a nice way to protect assets in a separate legal entity under a collective umbrella and inexpensive to set up once the initial structure is in place. Itās assets are segregated from the BTTF mother, although it probably pays the BTTF mother a management fee.
In my opinion, and based on the info from @Runswick, this should make everyone affected very happy.
3 Likes
Actually BTTF itself is a SPC from their website. And the investments vehicles are SPVs and its Maidsafe SPV
The conversation from 2017 at the bottom might shed some light on the option given to the BTTF investors in September and October of 2016. I believe, at this point, most everyone will elect the swap option (105 SNT for each BTTF share purchased).
Itās not really as simple as that, though. The following recap is based on my personal documentation of this offering back in 2016:
In addition to the actual shares purchased in 2016 a bonus of 2000 coins was to be credited for each investment of 2000 pounds made by, I believe, 9/15/2016. So if you invested 2000 pounds ($2654 USD at the time) you would have purchased 94 shares of the BTTF SPV which amounted to 9870 SNT (105 x 94) and been credited with an additional 2000 coins from the early incentive bonus for a total of 11870 SNT. The following month a bonus was given again for 2000 pounds invested but this time the bonus was only an extra 250 coins for each 2000 pounds if the investment was made by, I believe, 10/15/2016. So in this round your 2000 pounds ($2654 USD) would have netted you 10120 SNT (9870 + 250).
All total, that 4000 pounds (USD$5308) would have bought 188 shares of the SPV and entitled you to a total of 21990 SNT if, in the future, you opted for the coins-for-shares choice. The 21990 coins for 4000 pounds translated, then, to roughly .182 pounds ($.24 USD) per coin, about half what they are trading for today.
2 Likes