Poll: Do you want ERC20 MAID?

Autonomi Network Token
143

Then I’m a bad writer, because it does pain me - safenet is an awesome idea. I’m not a sadist, I don’t like seeing other people misled.
I explain my criticisms.

You are my main concern David because you are MaidSafe and it’s your company which controls the treasury.

There are thousands of people who invested and you (and staff) who received. Draw that on a scales and you can see why I think you hold a unique position of power of security in the group. Investors are 100% at risk and you are paid for your time, so people will and should opine on your words. Criticism is healthy. I’m making myself somewhat public and therefore open to criticism, I hope it is constructive.

It is your behaviour in responsibility to investors which I keep an occasional eye on.

I have no interest in the demise of the project nor the company, I don’t believe it is possible to short the tokens or stock. Maybe I’m just a ‘hater’? You’ll have to make you’re own minds up on that one.

Scam isn’t a helpful word here, OneCoin clearly was a scam to anyone with some relevant savvy. MaidSafe is not but that doesn’t mean it is gilt-edged either but we can never know that. Financial irresponsibility is opportunistic and tempting, which is why scrutiny is so important. At this stage, as part of the community, I…

  1. want people to seriously consider how SAFENet gets built without a funded co.
  2. and to exercise key person due diligence when considering any extra funding of any kind.

If anyone wants to discuss my motivations or personality feel free to open a thread, otherwise I think my statements stand on their own.

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144

Don’t be taken in by the finesse:

  1. the company was not ‘on the verge of bankruptcy’. The restructuring was necessary to avoid that, but done in plenty of time and quite normal if undesirable. I’ve been involved in countless projects that have had to do exactly this this, but it is not ‘the verge of bankruptcy’ when tackled in good time and the company’s reserves allow months of operation afterwards (before the funding round).

  2. We lost, so far for three days, 35% of a 200% subscription. So we are still ahead by well over 100% of the initial subscription offer. Even then, after a shock such as this prices often recover. Let’s see how this looks in a month.

This is what I mean by finessing. This can be unconscious bias or malevolent. Either way it emerges when people sense weakness and feel they can allow their negativity to emerge.

zeroflaw is also emboldened by this turn and again using a straw man: implying my quote suggests I’m saying Fleming is likely to arrive in January. He’s not been held to account for his previous misrepresentation of my statements, so he continues. @moderators may wish to revisit my earlier complaint.

There really isn’t any need to panic at this point. If you think there is, set out why based on the facts and reason objectively. All friends of the project are concerned, but that doesn’t mean things are suddenly in danger.

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145

Here I save everyone’s thinking. It cannot be done without initial centralized pressure. If it could be done, someone would have done it already.

Talking is free. Actions are expensive…

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146

Prospect.

Definition from google:
“the possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring.”

So you did say that Fleming is likely to arrive in January.

Why are you so obsessed with moderators, why would an advocate for a decentralised web. Feel the need to involve the SafeNet government? and censor me because you don’t like my views and opinions. If they ban me, I still don’t care. I will never care. I have plenty of time to make many more accounts before final safe network is launched. I will not be silenced.

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147

@zeroflaw well, @happybeing expressed the hope that in January, we will be focused on the prospect of Fleming, which is something altogether different than saying Fleming will be a thing in January. We could be focused on the prospect of the next Olympics as well, which says nothing about the time the event takes place.

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148

Exactly, is not hard to understand my meaning when you don’t wish to misread it.

EDIT:

I’ve not asked them to ban you. I asked you to substantiate your claims about what you say I said. You refused, so I’ve asked the mods to deal with this and said I’ll be satisfied if you withdraw those claims and apologise.

If you get banned, that’s not because of anything I’ve said or asked for, so why bring it up with respect to my complaint if not to suggest I want to ban or censor you?

You have a way of arguing that implies things about others without justification and when challenged, naturally you can’t back it up and then use distraction.

You silence our ears, nobody needs to ban or censor you, you do it to yourself.

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149

Agreed. The word “soon” has really been abused quite a bit, be it Beta, Fleming, MVP or MVE “Soon”. The (moving) goalpost doesn’t matter.

I’d like to quote myself here:

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150

So now we are confusing the definitions of the words confident and hope. In an attempt to suggest I’m unable to read. Cool.

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151

In my opinion, they are trying to tell you that you prefer to see the glass half empty with cracks from which dead water runs out …

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152

In my opinion they are misrepresenting their views and using ridiculous arguments to defend them.

153

You will find me the easiest CEO to displace Oscar, but you will also find me to be working 7 days a week and very long hours. also funding the business in many ways. The company will never pay me what I have paid to them in hard cash either, I hear the “they pay you” story way too often. My salary has been significantly below what I was or could be earning otherwise, so that is a bit rich chap.

This is bogus, I spend a ton of time with investors, both equity investors, in person and on line as well as token holders.

So let’s look at how I treat investors.
Since 2014 none of the equity investors had to pay more, we raised funds without dilution. Are you suggesting that is now a bad deal. We did raise a very small amount of equity in 2015, but not significant dilution.

You tell me how that could have been better for folk. The cost, me not being able to split in 2 and be the Engineer I had to be to get across the line faster. So long nights etc. etc.

Then token holders, many on this forum. They get from me 100% right on the button what’s happening, openly honestly and frequently, what more do you want there?

I sold some shares in Sigmoid in 2016 and get a load of bitcoin, I put that into the company and probably that kept us going for 2 - 2.5 year, at no cost to any investor of any type. Cost to me, I now have a tax bill as it was seen as disposal and HMRC are looking to apply 2018 rules retrospectively. So instead of me sitting at about £2.5million The company is still here and I am sitting with a huge bill. Cost to the company - zero. Again I keep going.

So you tell me how working hard, being honest and open is an issue. You tell me how self-sacrifice is an issue, or tell me how in my openness to others taking the CEO role, is weak?

I raised investment in this project to make a difference. I work constantly to make that happen, I have to give up the tools and get involved in non tech work a lot. That has cost us dearly.

One thing I don’t do is put myself first, the project always wins. Otherwise I would be sitting with a large bank balance and a family, I chose the hard road and I walk it every single day. So perhaps a bit more humility and honesty would go a long way. You have made assumptions that are clearly wrong and in fact rather insulting. It is not clever or helpful. Folk don’t need to know what I do, what I give up to make this happen.

SAFE is an important project and right now 100% focus on getting that product to market is all I work on. I don’t refuse help, but that’s not what you are offering anyway.

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154

Pick “hope” or “confidence”. It changes nothing about the gist of the original message which did not attempt to predict when Fleming arrives, but when we could start talking about it instead of all the other stuff.

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155

Hey David, don’t listen to him. There are many, many people who are grateful to you for what you do!

There will always be people who think they can do better. And these people talk and talk and talk. But they do nothing.

People who do things are hated. This is a fact. Elon Musk makes rockets and self-driving cars and people still hate him. It’s inevitable. If you can’t be the hero, then being a bad guy is at least being in the same story …

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156

Not sure if this directed at me or Zero. I’m not panicking, but I am keeping my eyes open and as anyone would in a good chess match trying to think several moves ahead. The situation for me he has not changed. Polo left the US market already, so this delisting doesn’t directly impact anyone over here. However, when one takes a broader view, this delisting

  • Puts the project in a weakened state because now there is only one remaining semi-decent exchange option—Bittrex—and that exchange has very low volume
  • Limits the ability of the MaidSafe team to sell the tokens they raised due to reduced liquidity
  • Limits the ability of would be investors and traders to buy MAID/market make
  • Presents poor optics that won’t serve to attract people to the project (I can’t count how many times I’ve had to explain to people that this project isn’t dead…this turn of events won’t help unless appropriately counteracted)

The trend over the past 18+ months has been quite negative—from delistings to delayed launches to people leaving to calls for fund raising. This narrative (especially when not counter acted) damages the project for the reasons listed above as well as in many other posts to this and other related threads.

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157

I agree with all you say there @sotros25. My remark wasn’t addressed to anyone in particular.

It was a challenge to anyone who is panicking or is being alarmist to set out the justification for that panic or alarm.

I don’t see any reason to panic in what you’ve just outlined, and at the same time I’ve already acknowledged that it is something that friends of the project will be rightly concerned about.

Having seen how David and the community have dealt with things like this several times over the years I’m happy it can be dealt with and we’re only on day three after all! :smile:

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158

Personally this has been an amazing opportunity to get some additional tokens at an incredible price. Maid is still one of the rare projects that makes sense. Most other projects I see have bo sound business plan, but this is a logical evolution of the internet and an investment I can fully see succeeding.

Just a little further guys, bring this baby home for the world to see :slightly_smiling_face:!

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159

As long as the core dev team knows how to deliver this network then thats all I can ask for. How the MaidSafe tokens fund it(via bittrex/hitbtc, selling through forum, whatever) does not matter to me. If we get a network and a way to convert omni maidsafe to safe coin then MaidSafe delivered on its goals to the community and investors. Some might not be happy with that because they want hype and promotion and all the jazz that comes with a highly funded glitzy 2017 ico project that has millions and millions to give away right now but MaidSafe is not one of those so lets push hard to the finish line and complete the most important task at hand, which is a network.

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160

“It’s always darkest before the dawn”

I agree with comments on both sides it has been a turbulent 18 months with a lot of bad news but also a lot of good news. It is hard to keep telling people the network will be here “soon” but it is a monstrous task the team are trying to achieve. I feel for @dirvine as he seems to be a man with high integrity and has dedicated a large portion of his life to this project with a massive impact on his own personal life. He doesn’t have to explain to people in a forum that he has issues with the “taxman” to get a point across but he his willing to do that. If more people in the world where as open and honest as David then we probably wouldn’t need the network.

The team have said there are now no known unknowns so it’s just a case of putting this massive jigsaw together.

I believe the main priority is get something tangible out in the world and see where we stand. Then we can all sing, scream and dance about the project to anyone and everyone who will listen. And David will rightly so go down in the perpetual web history pages.

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161

They will still need to facilitate, communicate it to their users. Perhaps deal with idiots that didn’t catch the change and send their OMNI MAID to their ERC20 address, etc. Even if it’s not too much work it’s still work and something you will have to convince them is worth doing.

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162

You cannot send tokens from OMNI to Ethereum. The addresses are different:

Screenshot_2019-12-23_20-11-04
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