Launch Planning: Community Update 🚀

[realistiCinvestor]

What you are outlining here, though I do not understand the technical aspects, sounds like an absolute disaster for investors.

[Josh]

Is there a fork out there of any project that is more valuable than the original?

I don’t know of any but maybe I missed it.

I’m sure @Dimitar will swoop in and school me soon.

Nobody values a copy, no matter how good as much as the real thing.

[Dimitar]

@Josh

Nobody values a copy, no matter how good as much as the real thing.

Tell that to Dogecoin, last time I looked it was in the top 10 while Litecoin isn’t

A copy of Autonomi with native currency will most likely crush the erc20 original…

Dogecoin as a fork of Litecoin

---

Check out the Dev Forum

[Josh]

@Dimitar

A copy of Autonomi with native currency will most likely crush the erc20 original…

Yes but that assumes Maidsafe don’t do it first and if they don’t and someone else does then… its not really a copy.

@Dimitar

Tell that to Dogecoin,

I knew I could count on you to provide an example but are both litecoin and doge not basically a fork of Bitcoin?

[tari]

@neo

Correct if the client software was modified to do this. But if a node was modded to not collect the royalty then I believe the chunk will be accepted without it.

I am assuming this node is still part of the autonomi mainnet when it accepts this chunk.

@dirvine is this factually accurate?

@neo

But in any case the community as whole could decide to allow royalty not to be paid.

What you are describing is a essentially a network upgrade / hard fork.

@neo

It is not upto the foundation as to what gets accepted or not accepted, it is the autonomous network and by proxy the world users

Only if the above statement is true.

[Profess]

@loziniak

It would be a nice gesture from Maidsafe. Unfortunately, this would mean maintaining two codebases and additional work, so distraction from other development.

This is hardly about a nice gesture I have carefully read the statements made by David, the team and advanced members of the community that - the ERC20 Token network is a forced solution due to the unfinished nature of the Native network, and thus exchanges and partners were not interested in incurring expenses for the purpose of launching a completely new and thus risky network. The second issue was regulation and legal requirements, the Ethereum ecosystem is proven and makes it easy to meet regulatory requirements, and this allows for the launch of a commercial network but goes against Autonomi.

So if a second Native network was launched then it would be possible to continue working on the original assumptions without the impediments of how to meet regulatory requirements, at the same time as you write yourself there will have to be such a network anyway, so maintaining two twin code bases (talk about part of a shared network) will not be much more of a problem than all those that have been overcome over the 18 years of the project. And there would be many more benefits, as any compromises in such a novel technology will only prolong the work and increase the expense.

[Profess]

I’m not sure whether you are for or against :), because here you are in favour:

@DavidMc0

@loziniak

There are some skilled devs, maybe it would be possible for them to keep the network alive as a comnet?

This could be a good idea if it’s possible without huge effort, but after the January launch I hope there will be an official ‘native token’ development branch with test networks that the community can play with to work on apps that use the native token’s capabilities.

And here you are even against it:

@DavidMc0

@Profess

I don’t know if I’ve drifted too far away with this idea but could it at least be worth looking into?

My non-expert view is that having 2 separate networks (native and ERC20) would be a negative when both could live very nicely on a single network once the native token is sufficiently developed & tested, and there is a mechanism to swap between the two (2-way bridging or burn/mint setup).

And here I think you are in favour again

@DavidMc0

I expect there will need to be native token test networks in parallel with the ERC20 main network, but once it’s tested sufficiently, integrating with the main network seems far better to me that having 2 separate networks competing…

With the proposal for two networks, I made the case for such an idea, and whether two networks remain or are merged, or whether yet another option emerges, the future will tell, it is now just a matter of finding the optimum step forward so as to ensure the coherence of the project and maintain its credibility. For the time being, David has yet to say whether this would be beneficial and ultimately create added value, or whether it would be detrimental to the project.

---

No Safe, no wave.

[Knosis]

@Josh

Yes, but that assumes MaidSafe doesn’t do it first.

Could the community raise funds to develop the native token? We’ve invested in the network before—why can’t we collectively fund this to bring it over the finish line? This assumes, of course, that the team is okay with it. We could proceed with ERC for now but have the community fund developers to complete our native token sooner rather than later.

We could partner with factory.ai or cosine.sh/genie to accelerate the token’s development. These companies want to showcase their products and are actively looking for people to work with, and we need a native token.

---

On cosine.sh’s homepage “If you wish to talk to us about our model feel free to reach out.”

[rusty.spork]

We have a team meeting on Tuesday. I can bring up your idea on a community fundraiser for a dedicated developer who is solely working on the native token. Out of curiosity from the community, what is your thought on this, and level of support for another fundraiser? You all have done so much, as many of you have been here for over a decade.

[Southside]

Is there anything left in the Bamboo Garden fund?
Maybe I missed it - or it was confidential - but I am unaware of this resource ever having been tapped.

[rusty.spork]

I have no reason to believe the resources are tapped. More people were hired not too long ago.

[Southside]

Aye - 2 countries separated by a common language
By “tapped” I mean - has the fund ever been used for anything?
Your response seems to indicate that it has and it is paying(perhaps partly) for the recent new hires.

My further question then is - Can the BGF afford to hire a Native Token dev?

[rusty.spork]

As I mentioned I will happy bring the idea of a dedicated native token dev. As for our finances, Im not really qualified or knowledgeable enough to answer those questions, or know what I can share. I have never seen the books, but last time I asked about funding, I was assured we do not have any worries at this time.

[Safemoon]

if you’re thinking of hiring a dedicated token developer, perhaps you could talk to x.com , the guy who wrote the DBC article that got us all excited
Technical Learning Resources - #29 by JayBird

and creator of scritcash.

How we might market a DBC’s (Digital Bearer Certificate) Unique/Cash-like features

@oetyng @dirvine a DBC implementation called “SCRIT”. Never heard of it before but thought I’d share. https://opaque.link/post/scrit-vision/

I don’t know if it would be possible on his end or ours, since DBCs were ruled out, but it would be interesting to see what comes out of that collaboration.

[Knosis]

scritcash

[DavidMc0]

@realistiCinvestor

sounds like an absolute disaster for investors.

It could be, or could be a massive boost, depending on whether it strengthens or weakens the main network.

The ability for any community around an ERC20 token to earn their own token by running modified-Autonomi nodes to support what could be kind of their project’s own decentralised ‘intranet’ is an interesting, and potentially disruptive concept.

@Josh

Is there a fork out there of any project that is more valuable than the original?

I can’t think of any in crypto, but expect there are many examples of people / companies who developed innovative technologies and someone else commercialised it more successfully.

So, I think it’s possible that a bigger & better resourced community could outpace Autonomi’s early growth based around a fork that uses their own token. But of course it’s not inevitable, as they & their community likely won’t have a vision for it, whereas Autonomi and its community will have.

@Profess

I’m not sure whether you are for or against

What I’m saying in all of those quotes is that I think there will need to be test networks for the Native token, but not ongoing separate networks for ERC20 and Native. Once Native is developed, it should become part of the main network & not continue separately.

The first one was saying it may be worth doing a comnet with native token for dabbling ahead of an official native testnet, but was never supportive of the idea of dual ongoing networks.

[DavidMc0]

@rusty.spork

We have a team meeting on Tuesday. I can bring up your idea on a community fundraiser for a dedicated developer who is solely working on the native token. Out of curiosity from the community, what is your thought on this, and level of support for another fundraiser?

I’d consider chipping in a bit if it helps speed up delivery of the Native token by keeping development going while the rest of the team is laser focused on delivering the ERC20 version.

It’ll be interesting to hear what the team thinks about the concept and whether it may be possible without being a distraction to the focus on launch.

[rusty.spork]

Originally BTC was forked to create LTC. A now dead project called Lucky Coin (LKY) forked LTC. Dogecoin then forked LKY (Although most people just say Doge is a LTC fork).

With a 19B market cap (#8), I would consider Dogecoin much more successful then LTC with a market cap of 5.2B (#20) or a dead coin.

Although not as successful as BTC, the BitcoinCash (BCH) fork was pretty successful. They built some real utility that was needed in the first days of crypto by drastically decreasing gas prices, offering scaling options, and is a much faster network.

[neo]

@tari

What you are describing is a essentially a network upgrade / hard fork.

No, not hark fork, just an upgrade.

You see its the node that accepts the chunk that enforces the payment of the royalty to be paid. If the node s/w is modified to not enforce that then the clients choosing that node to upload the chunk to will not be required to pay the royalty if they don’t want to.

Due to the way nodes are chosen, one node will not do much since only chunks that land very close to that node’s xor address have an opportunity to use that node. But if the worldwide community agree with the upgrade (mod to remove royalty) then royalty will not be enforced by the nodes. The foundation cannot control that.

A hard fork will be a new network with the modified (or not) software, new network keys and no data.

@tari

Only if the above statement is true.

So tell me if the foundation (or Maidsafe) can stop you or everyone from using a modified node software. Some of us build the node program from the source code and ran that without issue. I did with additional logging and earned without issue.

[neo]

@Josh

Is there a fork out there of any project that is more valuable than the original?

Libre Office, a distant fork of Word Perfect is quite a lot more valuable than its immediate parent open office and quite a lot better than Word Perfect when it was killed off by Microsoft who basically gave away MS office back in the 80’s/90’s to government for cheap, schools for free, universities for cheap, etc so that Word Perfect would not be selected except for people who wanted a fully functional word processor. MS Word couldn’t even get indexes to work right and have correct page numbers in the table of contents back then.

If you look at Autonomi as a token network then its more than possible. But the issue is that in the context you are asking then in my opinion then Autonomi will be the best unless they stuff up something real bad or stop development. This means native token has to be introduced within a reasonable & smallish timeframe (1 or 2 years max)

You see its the data, and once the amount of valuable data exceeds a certain tipping point then any clone/hard fork will have too much ground to catch up to be a general purpose data network bigger than Autonomi.

Now specialised networks is a different story. Universities, libraries, and similar where their hard forked network incorporates copyright control, lending rules, tokens for controlling resources, nodes do not earn as such. OR maybe businesses with 100K employees of more for instance.

But to see Autonomi as a token/blockchain network that can just be forked with a new idea misses the point that the network’s real worth is the data it holds and hard forking it for the token is not going to go very well. It will be a very hard battle, on my opinion, to grow past a maturing Autonomi network that passed that tipping point. How long to the tipping point? Maybe a few PB or a few big Data databases, you see the data is worth so much more than the flavour of token. Forking the network for just the token is folly since there are so many blockchains out there that will do whatever people fork the token for.

Disclaimer: My opinion/analysis above is using the assumption that network will be workable at Jan launch and the Native token will be introduced in a reasonable time frame (1 to 2 years). If the native token is not introduced then I agree that forking could become a sport so to speak.