That’s not a great explanation, Neo.
Not sure why that would happen when other coins do the same. Can you still exchange ethereum proxy tokens for ETH?
I really think you are worrying about nothing here, Neo.
The core of a safe network is the same everywhere. This means that developers will receive money for improvements in any network. No problem here.
App developers can run their apps on any network, it’s the same core. No problem here.
What will be different are the initial investors and the distribution of the initial money. Big problem here.
Can I again ask to leave the personal attacks for a moment and have a rational discussion, pretty please?
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Here is a quick breakdown of the Ethereum ecosystem growth in 2019:
- Over 20 million Ethereum accounts created
- 4 million new active Ethereum addresses created
- 8, 516 live Ethereum nodes
- 520 new Dapps created
- The Ethereum Name Service (ENS) grows by average 1-2 domain names per ENS owner
- Gods Unchained, the most popular Ethereum Dapp, creates over 6.7 million items
- Dai stablecoin on Ethereum hits the 100 million Dai limit prompting a supply increase vote
- Ether locked in DeFi surpasses $650 million
- Ethereum developer community 4x larger than any other crypto ecosystem
I’m open to all ideas and will continue to critique what I see.
If you are on the alt side of an argument, it is not personal just because others challenge the difference.
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I enjoy the criticism, friend, this helps the discussion progress. I commented on the use of the word “obsession”
Make more sense now? @Sonder
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One thing about the ERC20 token I think needs to be emphasized is that if it is not explicitly endorsed by Maidsafe and redeemable 1:1 for SAFE coin contractually it will not most likely NOT track the value of MAID. Without that tie isn’t a true MAID/SAFE token.
A good example are ETFs and ETNs. These are financial products issued by banks to track indexes, baskets of stocks, bonds, commodities, etc. They are traded freely and to the user they appear to be free floating products that fairly closely track the underlying index or whatever metric they’re supposed to. They are issued in large batches by the bank as demand warrants. They can trade at a bit of a premium or discount depending on various factors.
What gives them value, though, and makes these products work is that someone (usually another bank or institution) with an issuing block sized group of these (e.g. 25,000 shares) can directly sell them back to the issuing back at the intended price per the tracking mechanism. Thus, they are liabilities on the bank. This, though, is what gives them value. They are backed by that contract with the bank. Without that they are essentially worthless.
So an ERC20 token not contractually tied to Maidsafe is not the same as MAID.
Btw - I would like an ERC20 token parallel to the OMNI. However, it would take work and perhaps too much work by Maidsafe. I don’t have an opinion on the broader question as I just don’t know the effort/reward trade-off.
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I’m certainly not against erc maid or erc safe.
Erc maid endorsed by maidsafe seems unlikely, David for now has said a 3rd party would be better .
To avoid unnecessary strain / issues with the company I assume.
Erc safe if to be endorsed by the company IMO, would need to come after we are well established, and real safecoin is implemented on plenty of exchanges.
It is a concern to me that erc safecoin could cause price manipulation though as neo explained.
Edit.
David did say he would honour the 1 to 1 swap.
There were no Ethereum proxy tokens; you just got a balance in the genesis block.
It is imperative that there is no time limit for redemption IMO, especially when there is no technical reason to require one.
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DeFi is all about composability. The different contacts can interact with one another in novel ways. Some good examples in this write up:
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BlockFi is a good one. They provide peer to peer lending through usdc and bitcoin and so on, and the returns are great. 6-8% so if you have a lot of money it’s a great place to park it and it is drawing A LOT of big money and more and more, everyday people. That is my interest in DeFi I suppose. I find Uniswap interesting but I don’t know a ton about it and it’s mainly just about trading and speculation so there is money there which draws attention but not like it’s for the Everyman or woman. I think peer to peer lending or say a multi-sig escrow service, smart contracts etc, are all the most interesting and probably are covered under the DeFi umbrella.
I personally think you guys should consider the multi-sig escrow for your network wide shopping cart. One party is the seller, second the buyer, third is an arbiter of some kind. The arbiter should have to prove their identity by signing something with their SAFE ID and be a reputable person or company.
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Another example that wasn’t mentioned in the article that I linked is Augur v2. It allows for permissionless and trustless participation in any market in the world by anyone in the world. So for example the existing insurance industry could be obsoleted by a decentralized alternative. Take crop insurance. Instead of your existing insurance policy, you place a hedging bet that there will be less than X amount of rain in your area this year. The ‘money legos’ enabling this include Maker/DAI for stable coin issuance that denominate the markets, Uniswap as a price oracle, 0x for off chain trading of positions in the betting market, along with Augur REP itself, which is used to resolve disputes about market outcomes.
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@Dimitar Are you aware that in the 2nd year of a live SAFE network then these sort of figures would be laughable. We are talking of 100’s of millions of new users and maybe 1 million new farmers or 10 million.
ERC20.safecoin will be like 90% to 99% of ERC20 Why would we want to prop up ERC20 market with a network that is going to be 100’s of times the size of ETH users/nodes
Going ERC20.safecoin will be a backward step.
NOW for ERC20.MAID its a different story. And if a dual coin can be made with transfers between both then its a definite possibility
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You only have a guess that it will be so. I hope you’re right. Experience shows me that it will not be so easy.
First, there will be years in which people will gain confidence in the system.
Second, people have established habits. They already use everything that the network will offer them. But I hope your guess is true.
Because in the initial stage, a Safe network with access to this market is likely to have a higher price of the token, due to a lot of money in the DeFi market and access to decentralized exchanges without KYC.
If a third party makes such a Safe network, it is likely to take our farmers and kill our network or keep its growth.
But this is only a problem for the investment of the people here. Not a problem for core devs and app devs. I personally am not interested in money, I say it just so we are all aware of the risks. Everything I say is also just a probability. Nothing is written in stone…
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Its not a coin project, we are not after trying to make money out of the coin, no need to convience people that this coin will pump higher than the others. It is NOT a crypto project
This is a network for people to upload data, run APPs on and visit web sites on. This is what will get users.
Our market place for users is the whole world of internet users - over 2 billion users. Not some crypto minded people after the next best and greatest alternative fiat coin. This point is ever so important, it is the over 2 billion people who use the web/Internet and not some 1 to 10 million people who currently use crypto.
SAFE is for over 2 billion not the less than 10 million people will to take a risk on the next best and greatest alternative fiat coin.
So SAFE will need there to be over 100 million people joining in the second year after full launch for it to be considered alive. It needs users to upload, use and enjoy the SAFE network.
I really do think you underestimate the power of a localSAFEcoin market and developing native safecoin systems for exchanges is easy and since exchange markets are huge then adoption of SAFEcoin is going to happened if it is not undermined by short term thinking
And farmers selling through exchanges will be sufficient to attract most if not all potential farmers
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Ethereum people will be the first to use a Safe Network. They have accounts in the exchanges. They understand what a cryptocurrency is…
I have talked to hundreds of people on the street. People who are not in the crypto world. They will be the last to use the network to upload information to it.
I say again, I hope you are right and I am wrong, because we share the same values. 
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It seems to me, you are looking at it too much from the cryptoinvesting point of view. I know many people who dont know anything about crypto, but who are tired with the “everything as a service with mothly payments” trend. They will be in the moment they learn that they can store data forever for one time fee. I am not taking speculants or investors, but regular users. Only problem I see getting enough information to them.
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I have no doubt that the SAFE network will spread. I comment on who I think will use it first. I’m just speculating on the probability, friend