It is time for ERC20 MAID!

[Dimitar]

You will be able to buy anonymously from UniSwap. The advantage of etherium is that it has a huge ecosystem and DeFi.

[Southside]

It is time for ERC20 MAID!

if “Erc20” = true; “network completion” = “network completion” + >200 days EDIT: This post has not aged well - Following the very welcome intervention of @SwissPrivateBanker and @Birdinc1, with the professionalism that @Sotros25 brings with her, I am now much more confident that an ERC-20 token could be delivered with fairly minimal impact on network completion (for various values of “completion”)

[jlpell]

What would happen to the MAID blockchain snapshot idea for maid to safe at genesis? Seems like this erc swap complicates things.

[krnelson]

@Southside

KYC is coming whether you like it or not. Even with full adoption of SAFE, vast swathes of the services will only be accessible by those who have KYC’d at least one of their accounts.

No that is not a given the cracks are already appearing in the old KYC regime. While the world economic pie was growing it was easier to force through these surveillance capitalism measures. “The regime that FATF built” is on shakier ground than even outlined in that research article now that the conditions that allowed it to be forced on market participants has now gone into hard reverse.

Note Switzerland was one of the last to bow to pressure while the economic pie was growing:

There's a Bigger Scam Than Anything in Crypto, It's Called KYC/AML

…and this as never about stopping crime, of course.

https://twitter.com/BobMcElrath/status/1187471878186659841

@SwissPrivateBanker

I know a permissionless process would be ideal, but that would take some development. However our traditional redemption/minting process could be customized in a week should you want to go ahead.

It is a very generous offer even with KYC, many thanks @SwissPrivateBanker

A week extra to avoid KYC/AML and the uncomfortable irony of a privacy and security first project having KYC on what will become a long lasting infrastructure bridge between the current DeFi leader, and the future one - priceless.

[Dimitar]

@jlpell

What would happen to the MAID blockchain snapshot idea for maid to safe at genesis? Seems like this erc swap complicates things.

No, etherium also has a blockchain. You can just have a snapshot of the 2 blockchains at the same time

[Dimitar]

@krnelson

bridge between the current DeFi leader, and the future one - priceless.

“The king is dead, long live the king!”

[drehb]

@jlpell

What would happen to the MAID blockchain snapshot idea for maid to safe at genesis? Seems like this erc swap complicates things.

It would need to have 2 snapshots and 2 signature validation algos if it was a one way bridge (burn your Omni tokens, be granted ERC20 tokens by the KYC custodian). If it was a 2 way bridge (send Omni coins to custodian in exchange for ERC20 tokens) all SAFE conversions could still be from Omni to SAFE by returning the ERC20 tokens to the custodian in exchange for Omni tokens.
edit: or as discussed above the custodian could convert all MAID that they held such that the ERC20 token becomes a proxy SAFE token backed by SAFE held by the custodian /edit

@Dimitar

etherium

Ethereum

[Dimitar]

@drehb

Ethereum

Very stupid name, even Google Translate does not know how to spell it… Compare it to the simple SAFE…

[jlpell]

@Dimitar

Compare it to the simple SAFE

Come’on now, who doesn’t love a few kg of Saferium now and then?

[drehb]

@Sotros25

If the total number of MAID (I.e. OMNI + ERC20) cannot exceed the present supply

I believe that we are just trusting the custodian to ensure this. I’d prefer a trustless bridge, but I don’t think it exists for Omni to Ethereum, so under the circumstances it’s probably the best we can ask for.

[Dimitar]

Interesting photos come out for Saferium in google

[joshuef]

@Dimitar

just have a snapshot of the 2 blockchains

Reading this thread this is what worries me. “Just”. It’s twice the work. Twice the bugs.

Unless an ETH token can be easily exchanged back to omni (and only OMNI was to be redeemable to SAFE), then we are doubling the work and security surface here.

This is not a comment on whether we should have an erc20 token or not. Just an observation.

I’m aware @dirvine commented above with a general thumbs up. But I myself read that comment in terms of a token just existing for speculating on the omni token. Not sure if any official recognition/redemption of erc20 was intended there…

——

If it is a “just” (and the workload is minimal) then As a community we should be able to start the ball rolling for such a token and demonstrate a POC of such a snapshot Of both tokens on chain and how that could be redeemable without any maidsafe work needed.

A first iteration the company can look at asses and perhaps look to integrate for future testnets as has been suggested.

If it’s not actually that simple that the community can demonstrate this, then I really think there is more work to it than folk want to admit. (And potentially more pitfalls as folk have noted above)

——
And to note.

This is me commenting as a concerned forum member, not in any official capacity. I’m on holiday at the mo so off slack and not aware of any maidsafe internal discourse on this.

[dirvine]

@joshuef

I’m aware @dirvine commented above with a general thumbs up. But I myself read that comment in terms of a token just existing for speculating on the omni token. Not sure if any official recognition/redemption of erc20 was intended there…

The more I read the more I feel that the conversion should have nothing to do with MaidSafe and that all works as long as this conversion was 2 way. We recodnise only Omni MAID for the safecoin swap. So erc20 can exist and may do amazingly well, but when it comes time to convert then it’s erc20->Omni->safecoin. That way there is no need for contracts or “official recondition”.

That gives the erc20 a chance to prove itself and we can all hope it does really well and satisfies the wishes of us all, whether we convert our own personal tokens to erc20 or stick with Omni. SO a win win, but means the conversion has to be 2 way.

Does this make sense @SwissPrivateBanker ? Of course we can “recodnise” the erc20 as MaidSafe and the community, but not require contracts etc for conversion.

[SwissPrivateBanker]

I mean, the omni token holder who wants to wrap its MAID assets and tokenize them in ERC20 format could be his own issuer from a legal perspective. Within that set up, Maidsafe wouldn’t be involved as the ultimate issuer.

The other issue is KYC. If the community is reluctant to use a regulated custodian and go through an AML process, we could imagine developping a bridge between BTC and ETH blockchain: Omni-maid holder would deposit their maid assets into one public BTC address, an oracle service would monitor the deposits and a smart contract could mint the wrapped ERC20 maids and deliver them to the token holder into an ETH adress he controls.

A bit of development is involved, but it is doable and a permissionless elegant solution.

However, in my opinion, even though the above is the ideal set up, if Maidsafe the company doesn’t endorse the project, and acknowledge that the ERC20 will be redeemable against safecoin I don’t see how this would gain momentum within the community. It would also be very cumbersome as ERC20 holders will have to switch back to omni before converting to safecoins.

[Dimitar]

@SwissPrivateBanker

if Maidsafe the company doesn’t endorse the project

What does this mean? We can have a topic posted in the forum and add the information on the official site. Is anything else required?

[SwissPrivateBanker]

It has to be official. A public commitment that maidsafe will recognize the ERC20 when time comes to swap them into safecoins.

[davidpbrown]

The concept of Omni becomes safecoin, is accepted and holding to that avoids introducing any risk.

If there is a process for converting back from ETH20 to Omni, then it seems clear that has to be the better way forward.

[SwissPrivateBanker]

yes but converting from ERC20 or Omni should both be acceptable. I see the switch back to omni as a unecessary step.

[happybeing]

I see ensuring participants have a way back to Omni as a confidence building safety net. If all goes well, Maidsafe have the option of supporting conversion from the wrapped coins, but they can’t commit to that without doing work as has been pointed out.

So you requiring their commitment or endorsement is a blocker in that respect. I think David has now clarified that for you.

[davidpbrown]

@SwissPrivateBanker

converting from ERC20 or Omni should both be acceptable

“should” is opinion…

but the significant difference is additional work and risk for Maidsafe.

You may understand it as trivial but any option for no change, will be far more palatable to the community.

Introducing change for changes sake, might not satisfy all opinions of what is ideal and avoiding that ensures all current interests are maintained.

There is no argument about no change… there maybe concern about something new, which not everyone fully understands.