When you run a blockchain of let’s say 100 GB. Your client needs to scan the whole damn thing to see all the transactions. So when someone starts SAFE they need to download the whole blockchain. Not a good idea IMO. Especially if they start sharing their blocks over SAFE. It could slow things down because some folks want to use that good old blockchain.
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I’m not sure why there is so much us and them mentality among the communities of these projects. I look forward to using Slock.it on rental property. Once the safenet is active I am sure Ethereum can and will make use of the permanent storage offered. No doubt there will be a symbiosis between all the epic projects in this space. The vision I love most about Ethereum is the one shared by Vinay Gupta.
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Slock.it is incredible project but it’s too bad they are using ethereum for that. I still can’t get myself invest into ethereum at all. I will invest slock.it, no questions about that.
There will be maidsafe version of slock.it, though.
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No doubt the tech behind slock.it can be tweaked to operate with any crypto-currency and contract creating languages. But I like supporting projects where they start and if the folks at slock.it see the vision of MaidSafe then they will no doubt bring their expertise to the SafeNetwork as well.
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Not that I’m necessarily one way or the other, but I thought Safenet is suppose to be anonymity as a default. Not that everybody is mandated to be hardcore crypto-anarchists. As such, facebook is just as valid a use of the network as super-freetarded-encrypted-and-private-network-no-one-uses-book.
@anon40790172 - I get why bitcoin’s version of blockchains won’t be a good thing to put on the network, but what about other versions of the blockchain tech that uses more scale friendly techniques like treechains (you don’t need the whole blockchain to verify a transaction) or blockchains built from the ground up to take advantage of decentralized storage/compute networks like Safenet?
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Blockchains are just strings of folders/directories which never change. Wouldn’t the de-duplication feature of SAFE ensure that only one copy (with safety’s) of the chain exists…i.e it is the blockchain.
Use whatever mechanism desired to verify the block, but store once on SAFE .
I would have thought SAFE to be the perfect place to store a directory structure that never changes…and because it would happen via the API, wouldn’t it be a revenue stream for the publisher of the block.
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I would have thought SAFE to be the perfect place to store a directory structure that never changes…and because it would happen via the API, wouldn’t it be a revenue stream for the publisher of the block.
Blockchain changes every few seconds, but it’s also read every few seconds.
And cryptocurrency blockchains are tiny. Plus you don’t need (in the InTheoreum dream) multiple copies to begin with - you need couple of trusted nodes to update their copy whichever one else reads.
So it still wouldn’t present a revenue opp. The idea just doesn’t make sense, just like it didn’t when it was about Bitcoin.
There are 6000 full nodes on the network, all need to access few GB of new data per month. Completely meaningless workload. Pam Anderson videos from the mid 90’s will create more farmer revenue than that.
Now if the InTheoreum clowns throw in the towel and pay MaidSafe few hundred K to create an API that makes it convenient for InTheoreum to survive until they figure out their PoS plan, that’s fine (not my business).
This is a little idea I wrote some weeks ago. It does use transactions in a chain but no blocks created and shared with all the nodes. This should be possible, although it isn’t as safe a real blockchain.
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If at all , Ethereum will use our technology and platform for their project , … just another customer using SAFE and safecoin . There will be many projects using our tools , for all the obvious and subtle reasons that do make the difference between something that solves some fundamental problems and scales well , and something that only works initially but has serious scalability issues built-in by design - a situation we’ve come across throughout most blockchain-based-projects .
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Ok, dumb nontechie question here - I thought sites on the Maidsafe network are suppose to get faster the more they are used. How would accessing any blockchain if put on the network slow things down?
My concern in asking this question is could this not be a point of attack to the network… just upload a bunch of blockchains?
Please explain in laymen terms. Thanks
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How about Eris Industries? They run on a blockchain and @BenjaminBollen works there now…it must be awesome tech for him to leave Maidsafe for the lawyer crowd?
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Not a dumb question at all. I agree, things should become faster on SAFE the more people use it due to caching. But that’s when it comes to the Chunks (1 MB pieces). On Bitcoin and other blockchains all the transactions are shared with all users. And they want more and more transactions, including transactions to open the door in a hotelroom etc. So let’s assume someone ports Bitcoin to SAFE. Bitcoin has 6967 nodes at this moment. What do they do?
- Share all transactions with all nodes. That’s 3,12 Ts/sec. these days.
- Share all blocks in their network. It’s over 65 GB. and grows every ten minutes.
On SAFE we have HOPS for security. So when I connect to you there are probably 3 or 4 nodes between us that have to route our messages and data. So what are the problems when we have these nodes on SAFE, assuming they all join SAFE instead of using their own P2P-Network?
- 6967 nodes times 4 HOPS that’s 27868 nodes that need to route 3,12 Ts/sec. just for Bitcoin.
- 1 MB. (for now) per block every 10 minutes and downloading 65 GB. for every new Bitcoin node on SAFE.
- And the need to re-download the whole thing after a restart of the computer because on SAFE nothing is stored locally.
I agree downloading these blocks and sharing them will trigger cache. But all these messages alone and all these confirmations and failed blocks etc. That a lot of load to the network only to give us slow transactions (between 10 minutes and and hour). Safecoin will probably provide transactions in under a second, with no need to share them with the whole network. That’s the power of SAFE and it’s “ownership model”. You can become owner of an address with just 3 groups or so (about 100 nodes) reaching confirmation.
And I only talked about Bitcoin. If some folks add Ethereum, Litecoin, Dogecoin or whatever we see a lot of messages per second. That’s what I don’t like. SAFE can probably handle a lot of these a second, but there are better solutions on SAFE than adding a blockchain. I was positive about the idea about a year ago. But after getting more details I think it would slow things down. A transaction chain shouldn’t be a problem if it’s just for fun within an App with a small group of people. But please no exchange of blocks and certainly not thousands of nodes confirming and sharing etc.
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Slow things down for that nood trying to use the blockchain on the Maidsafe network right? The network as a whole would not be hindered correct?
Ignore ethereum at your peril. There are yet-to-be-developed applications that could work well with the SAFE net. Nothing good will come from slamming them in this forum. We cannot forget MAIDSAFE is a business and we are its ambassadors.
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I actually think it would slow down the network as a whole. Nodes are needed like Ants to keep the whole network up and running. If some nodes slow down the whole network slows down a bit. That’s different from when an episode of House of Cards get populair. That would cause a lot of data exchange but mostly chunks that can be cached. Quite different from all these transactions per second.
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I don’t think people are really slamming them here on the forum. I don’t, I like that project although I’m concerned about their scalability. I see SAFE and Ethereum as both good projects on their own, Maybe with some lightweight Apps to bridge.
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I see negative sentiment brewing on this thread and when the MAID project launches we will hope the ethereum developer community comes a knockin. Lets hope they are welcomed. No doubt you Ross David and the Team will have no issues. MAID is makin some good noise out there.
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That’s why they call it InTheoreum
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Vitalik told me on Reddit he’s open to the idea after I posted a link to a topic here on their Reddit. That was 8 months ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3buq4l/maidsafes_rust_rewrite_is_going_well/
I said in an old topic:
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Ethereum folks would one day create a little bridge between Ethereum and Maidsafe so people can use the same log on, PIN etc. for both systems. Ethereum will have so many contract etc. running on their blockchain, it’s gonna be very big in a couple of years. Maybe external blockchains are a good idea for SAFE, or maybe not! But there’s no way to prevent other systems using SAFEnet to do this.
Vitalik replied with:
Sure, would be great if we could work toward this existing. Does Maidsafe have any technical documentation on its access control details? Ours are here, and have already been implemented and tested in C++/go/python.
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Very cool, outstanding effort!. We need Vitalik to understand that eight months is only 2 weeks on the Scottish calendar and Team Troon is ahead of sched!
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