Anyway, it might be interesting to discuss development strategies and finances. I think usage of the SAFE network opens up new possibilities in those areas as well. Perhaps we can work out a new way in which a group without a lot of starting capital but with a solid game vision could be enabled to develop that game? Perhaps by selling shares or certain in-game assets (items or game currency) as opposed to a kickstarter?
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As far as development strategies, my first thought is to really hone in on what the SAFE network does that other networks cannot. We were talking about static data earlier, and one of the things about the SAFE network is it ability to store truly massive amounts of unique static data.
So one of my thoughts would be to have things based on unique data structures (compared by hashes). That is that the game world is defined in a decentralized way in terms of unique data. So every single block of gamespace whether its an acre or a square mile, is composed in a unique way. It may be very similar to other blocks, but cannot be identical, because then the hashes would be identical.
No two items can have EXACTLY the same effect, or power.
No two monsters or characters can be identical etc. And we could get more or less and granular about what different sections are hashed and therefore must be distinct.
The great thing about this is that it invites the community to be involved in world-building (again at whatever granularity the dev desire), and allows the dev’s to reward people with items or skills or whatever, which by DEFINITION must be unique.
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Most important thing is the order of processing… So like a board game is easy or a RTS game is easy to implement. Though with avatars running around and slash and cashing here and there; this could get annoying if it is too slow 
If I push my button at 12:01:01 and someone else did at 12:01:02 that ought to be processed in the correct order. How to know that order with network lag heh
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Are we stuck with SETI level distributed computing? Why can’t signals propagate through a mesh much faster than we are used to supposing? PCell gets it going one way and that may be due in part to the nature of its wired back channel. I suspect that conceptually without a wired back channel even with sub 1 ms latency nodes that can connect at a mile’s distance one might need 500 hops to cover 250 miles and that might well add 250 ms latency. And this issue might be part of what drives the PCell design but under such parameters a large city might still be covered with sub 100ms latency.
The bigger problem is that without servers and under a distributed model it seems that compute wise, such distances yield glacial times. Could a distributed graphics engine run across these spans? Maybe a truly distributed compute system that we can control awaits instantaneous q communication. Short of this, for real time purpsoes, we would still be stuck with servers. Its kind of hard to get rid of some centralization or channeling, look at the layout neurons and of the human central nervous system. Even jellyfish have some.
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Porn and gaming: the driving forces of the technological industry.
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http://n-o-d-e.net/post/105534139006/sanctuary-update-technical-outline-for
So this post made me think of this conversation again.
Imagine the VR world is on a grid and we give each block of the grid a name composed of a prefix for the world’s name and that grid point’s x and y coordinates e.g. name=”sanctuary”, x=1, y = 2 → “sanctuary 1,2”. When your client appears on the grid, it looks up nearby grid locations on namecoin and fetches the values for them. These containthe models(which could be values or torrent refs, etc) or belonging in those locations along with their position, orientation and scale data. The model data could also contain sets of small named JS programs for interaction — including a timer() for animation/simulation.
I just think that this sort of thing could be done so much more simply on SAFE and you would have no need to merge multiple systems to do it.
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The world data is not the problem, it’s not as latency sensitive. It’s about the character (‘avatar’ in that article) updates. The linked article plans to make use of an authoritative node, which essentially functions as a server for a smaller region:
If a grid entry references an authoritative node to talk directly to for fast updates from around it’s region, the client can connect to it for very low latency updates of avatars in that region.
This implicates a trusted node, which SAFE does not make use of. My posts in this thread were mostly about pointing out the problems of monitoring a low latency server-node to prevent abuse of power (cheating). The article does not mention why this authoritative node is allowed to be authoritative. If it’s a server owned by a trusted party like the development company, this is actually a hybrid model as well.
Also, using region server-nodes doesn’t increase the ability to handle lots of players in the same space.
Imagine like this;
You spend 10 safecoins to put 10 TB of data on the network; that 10 TB contains the attributes of a profile for the game; It is perhaps flight simulator; and if you crash your plane etc; you consume your 10 TB profile in such a way that if you reach 0 TB then you need to put a new profile to the network to restart the profile; for example, in the case of WWII flight simulator battle; if you get shot down, you lose points, in such a way that it consumes your 10 TB; you could win TB from victories, etc; consider all the GETs happening;
Then, if you wind up crashing your plane too much; or getting shot down, you will need to put a new profile; which will cost you another 10 TB, but if you’re diligent or skilled, or careful with your plane, you keep playing never needing to reload because your losses vs gains in the game scenario will keep you going through rewards to your 10 TB or going against thereby potentially requiring to rePUT a profile, and start over; etc;
the cost will decline as the decline of the cost of 10 TB; for example for one game; or profile type; etc;
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This thread re-ignited something I thought would be really cool. Fair warning, I’m going off the deep end…
In every MMO game I’ve played, you have to login to their server. Then it dawned on me, we are already in the SAFE server. Most of the abilities provided by a server is at our fingertips. This is really mind blowing stuff!
Based on concepts from this thread: The essense of SAFE apps. A user can use Apps to “create” their own virtual house, virtual avatar… virtual anything. Here’s where I go off the deep end…
What if we starting using SAFE like a Virtual Reality Network. It might be hard for some to conceive right now so I’ll give an example. When I login to the SAFE Network, I immediately see my virtual house (2D/3D). Most likely 2D for easy implementation.
- It has a mail box, letting me know if I have any text messages waiting.
- It has a sign on my door, letting others know if I’m home (online/offline).
- Inside there is a virtual phone I can use to dial a friend for real voice communications.
- Inside there is a TV that expands full screen for a VOIP chat session or stream movies.
I could go on with many more examples. The point is, this interface very much like an MMO game but it provides real world utility for ALL online interactions (business, personal, social).
This interface is so intuitive and simple, even a kid can do it!
Every App can be linked to a virtual object which provides functionality/decoration/entertainment. And if you upgraded to a better phone App, it will reflect the upgraded image. It’s a living, breathing, evolving virtual world.
Instead of having a list of thumbnail Apps, you intuitively click the objects. And best of all, this virtual reality has no server limitation.
I imagine going to a friends SAFE house, and literally knocking on their door. And if they answered the door, I’d asked them to help me go slay some monster at this location. That would be so cool!
If Apps are stored on the SAFE Network, could my friend click on my phone and use it? I think my mind just exploded.
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Yes sounds good, I’ve been thinking along very similar lines and posted a similar idea, it is true it is mind-blowing doing little thought experiments, but mine tend to end in a cul-de-sac because of lack of technical knowledge. 
The 2d Safe Network just “feels” that it should be represented in 3d to me…and there’s prob some way to do it…that’s as far as I get 
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If you ever created a “shortcut” to an exe program, that is the basis of my interface proposal. The Apps themselves are way more complicated than implementation. I just wanted a way to make it seem more user friendly and intuitive.
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Yes I agree - I was thinking of a Street where you picture a house - the Street populated by friends/shops/services you use. This could extend to a larger map linking disparate groups, causing group/interest overlap, creating Societies type of thing. As the Network grows a map/landmass is created simultaneously -land bought for safecoin etc …yes you can go deep Interesting to play with the ideas though.
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Indeed
Imagine a shirt vendor who creates a virtual store and displays (images) their merchandise for sale in Safecoin prices. You pay Safecoin, and get a real shirt delivered to your house… tax free?
Because we are already in the SAFE server, all environments are connected by default. I would use a car image (SAFE Browser) to visit other Public addresses.
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This is describing a simplified firm of Second Life.
People have thought these kinds of interfaces were a good idea before, and before that, and… each time they flopped.
I think they appeal to our imaginations, for obvious reasons, but actually, it’s so much easier to use a menu, command line, icon etc. that’s what we choose.
We’ll do this for entertainment I think, but less for getting things done unless the interface provides functionality that is not practical otherwise.
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Agreed,
Everyone will have a different use case, and interface preference. My proposed interface is meant for this thread, which is MMORPG themed. So I think it is very viable for that market.
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I do think what I’m thinking of (and poss David) differs substantially from Second Life in a number of ways, for one it mirrors reality/Network, rather than creates an alternate one, plus the Safecoin ecosystem etc.
I take your point about the menu’s, but maybe that is something older people like us prefer…dunno? I just think that as David said the Network is a kind of space in itself that could be explored/represented in different ways.
I seem to remember the main issue with Second Life was that personal computers couldn’t render the graphics quickly…along those lines anyway.
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Why not do both? SAFE can house pretty much an infinate amount of data considering it’s all just references to datamaps and everything. So why not have a 3D second life interface, a traditional Gui interface and a command line interface? Why be either or? I can see the second life version being really big. My mom spends pretty much lhalf her life on second life and there are a lot of people with heavy duty disabilities or who are otherwise isolated or just have no life that would also find SAFESecond Life to be amazing. Think of all the people who spend 10 - 15 + hours online just surfing the net. If you don’t think the idea of a virtual world would be big you need to have another long think. Think of all the music, art, social, educational, sex, ecommerce and media venues that would pop up. Frankly I think it would be easier to get some people to use the SAFE net if it was in 3D virtual world mode than if it was using menus and commands. But then that comes back to choice of interface just like on Linux how most everything can be done with both the GUI and the command line but it’s usually a matter of efficiency as to which one you use.
@dyamanaka One of the reasons SL is failing now is Lindens are devaluing, partially because they are dependant upon fiat currency. People just don’t have the money to pay for them. But since SAFE has it’s own currency that’s dependent on how much you contribute to the network it would be completely different. On top of that the economy that would develop would encourage the safecoin economy. Imagine a virtual 3D live music event on SAFE space. People tipping singers, avatars being sold, clothes being produced and sold, music being recorded and sold. Maybe even venues being rented (tho i see less of that because anyone could have their own safe space). Same for art galleries, movies, stores, escorts, and any number of other comerce. You could have a non profit and have everyone sitting around together facing each other. And then throw in the put and get requests on top of all this. The more people are talking, downloading and uploading graphics, the more people are going to using safecoin.
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Totally agreed
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Absolutely!
Coming back to the OP, this simple interface could “bridge” all MMO Games on the SAFE Network.
Several years ago, my friends and I created a game called Semi Reality. We role-played as our real self. Through game progression, we would enter the game world. This allowed us to play in a infinite number of themes: scif-fi, fantasy, dream, alien, medieval, modern, comic universe… literally anything!
I see this interface serving that purpose. You use in real life like normal… but you can also go on an adventure into any game world, without ever leaving the SAFE Server, because you’re already in the server.
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Yes but this brings us back to our little problem of syncing real time actons. Because SAFE is decentralized there seems to be a wee bit of lag between nodes (kind of like there is between star systems) and syncing up actions and events to the milisecond for something like an MMO or FPS seems to be a bit tricky.