And design from the start a system that doesn’t have that flaw when planning for a global system. Best to do it right and not hope someone intervenes when total-supply drops to a few hundred million
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It’s too late for that. As long as there is a private key and its owner, it won’t be that particular network.
Check out the Impossible Futures!
A flawed design of many apparently “decentralized” projects. But I don’t have high hopes that much can and will be changed at this time. So we will all have to live with it I guess.
For myself, it’s not a decentralized project (it seems not even the node operators are) it’s rather a product developed, maintained (kept alive) and controlled strategically by an entitiy. More like a company <> user relationship than as in community <> open source project relationship.
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Let me ask you again, are you going to jail? There’s no way you can launch an anonymous and decentralized network with your face and have a life. Let them develop the technology, prove it, let corporations come and use it, and life will find a way 
Check out the Impossible Futures!
Fair enough, you are right. How Bitcoin was brought to the world was pretty unique and will unlikely happen ever again.
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I’ve never said anything like that. Please remove that from your reply @born2build
…and @Mightyfool , please remove my handle from the quote in your reply # 83 at least.
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Agree, sorry mate. Just quoted some stupid things. Removed it from my quotes.
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I don’t mind this 2% (given that I’m against emissions, this adds some balance), but should have been discussed publicly beforehand. But this seems mostly typical of Maidsafe - in the past they would say what they were going to do … take a load of heat for some decisions that were contrary to previous positions … then they’d do it anyway. I suppose with this they are just skipping a step (and for them a headache).
Also my market research indicates that the permanent storage market is small and most seekers of it will chose stable centralized platforms … leaving us with the anti-censorship market slice, which is tiny. So uploads aren’t going to be increasing dramatically for Autonomi for some time - if ever (sorry to be a downer, but let’s keep it real).
Reminder - The foundation is a huge bag-holder … so it should help Autonomi.
It used to be that David would come on the forum and give assurances and help people to understand what the aims/goals of the decisions were, and get people on-board. But that’s not happening now and Bux doesn’t pop in here either. Maybe on discord it’s another matter - I don’t use it so don’t know. But without that engagement, I fear that bag-holders will continue to walk away a bit at a time and the trading volume will drop until the foundation itself has no value left. Then it will truly be a dead project.
I am hopeful that now that with this current bagholder dump from the August NFT, that in a few months the price will stabilize some and begin to increase. We really just have to get though this period of selling by the stockholders and loan repayment recipients.
So no face … or just a blurry one
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We need to start out very own obituary like that of Bitcoin .
Ethereum also had months of dead calls until the price went up recently.
Not picking on your comment Tyler, it just made me think of how projects cycle from dead to alive to dead to alive 
often tied to token value.
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The 2% reduction is not working in a way that it would be first 2% off from all the tokens, and then 2% of the tokens that were left from the previous 2% reduction. That would never go to zero. It is 2% of every data upload payment, that will not “self-adjust” in that way, but has a capacity to grind the whole token amount to zero
I would really like to see a realistic math-based scenario on that one (grinding to zero), because you have increasing token price with increasing scarcity, which means the number of tokens you pay for uploading are proportionally less after a few years of uploading - in any realistic scenario I don’t see how it can remove the entire supply.
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Pick away, I don’t mind
BTC was traded OTC (over the counter) for a long while … they were the first, so the cyberpunks and libertarians weren’t diluted much as there weren’t other good digital options.
If Autonomi volume drops to dust, there’s nothing for it - it will be hard to resurrect. We need better leadership - and that means management on the forum talking up their decisions and also listening to supporters.
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Nothing really to pick upon I am mostly in agreement except, I don’t think this makes much difference.
We have a working network that will allow new things that are yet to be imagined.
That is the most exciting, what we or they thought the network would be at inception should not detract from what amazing things are yet to come.
I think its reason/s for success is not yet discovered.
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I don’t think the team will comment much on this forum again until the FUD and destructive criticism is curtailed. It’s certainly what seemed to drive David away. Indeed, I remember someone telling him he could not leave this place… he never posted since.
Maybe it just goes with the territory of launch. As soon as money is involved, it brings out all the FUD, the doom/gloom merchants, the resentful, the over-invested, etc. On the flip side, you get lambo boys and shills.
I dunno. I’d probably ban the lot from both sides and tell them to go and freely speak somewhere else (where I don’t have to listen to them). I’d much rather more dev debate than endless moaning, talk of ‘them’ and ‘us’, etc. But then it becomes another company forum… which can quickly turn into a marketing tool.
In summary, I don’t have the answers! 
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I don’t believe this project will succeed until they leave Discord and come back to their community and listen to what we are saying.
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Destructive criticism is a fact for sure. But it is usually brought up by lack of information (1) or misleading information (2). Examples follow:
(1)
There has been no discussion about the burning of network tokens before this one. If you search the forum with word “burn” before today, the only burn you find is burning of maids to emaid or ANT. The only mention about burning the network tokens are found in whitepapers. In the version 1.0, there was this one sentence:
Furthermore, the data payments are designed to include a burn mechanism, through which a portion of the data payment can be permanently eliminated if necessary to manage the token supply as the Network matures.
Then it was included to the next version. So, nothing was actually hidden, but not discussed either. And neither of the white papers give any reason for this burn. Somehow no one that now cares about this issue noticed it before. I can understand that, because there was a presentation about the white paper, right before it’s publication, supposedly summing up key points. The burn was not mentioned. Had there not been that presentation, people might have read the actual white paper more carefully.
(2)
Much of the drama last spring was brought up by people guessing about who is running the tens of millions nodes. They never existed. The fake numbers were result of some error in code. But of course folks started to wonder and speculate.
***
I don’t think there could have been really anything done to mitigate the example (2). Bugs happen, and people speculate. It’s a pitty no one speculated that maybe the number is wrong. But I think that the wilder the mismatch between the false and real number of nodes, the wilder the speculations. Folks see, that something is off, and try to grasp what. It can take wild directions. I think this should just be realized, accepted as a part of human behavior, and forgiven.
What comes to example (1), then apparently burning of the tokens as a part of payments is so self evident to some, that they don’t see a reason to even mention why it is done. And to others, the burning does not make any sense. I wish there was more discussions about these things. Then we could see there is that kind of gap.
I don’t think the destructive criticism was an issue before the shift to from Safe Network to Autonomi - at least not to this extent. So in my opinion it’s backwards thinking to say that team may not come back before destructive critisism ends. It doesn’t end until communication is more open. When it is not, there is always going to be things that take some of us by surprise and off we go.
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No, to be honest I remember it was discussed and presented at the time. I think Jim explained this on stages, or someone else somewhere else. But definitely I remember this was presented when the whitepaper went public. It only took a while for the community to actually understand imho 
Great job guys. What this forum needs is a whole OTHER thread of people complaining about the token. Token token token. There can be technical discussions that get maybe a dozen posts over a week, but a token thread? Well, by all means every Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to post on that one and get 140 posts in 24 hours! I’m getting so tired of this. You all claim you care about the network and want it to succeed, but the vast majority don’t actually do anything with it. How many of you tested apps today? How many uploaded/downloaded something from the network today? How many filed a bug report or network performance report? Did you market the network or apps in your sphere of influence today? How many of you have done ANYTHING with the network, EVER? No no no, we don’t have time for that, we need to spend all our time going on and on about the token! You all act like a bunch of helpless children, honestly. Grow the fvck up. If you don’t like it, do something actionable, something positive. MaidSafe isn’t listening to you anymore because your feedback just isn’t useful. Any dev that comes on here you run off. I’m on here reading every day, but anymore it just feels like a waste of time. So go on, justify your actions with how its so helpful to be talking about tokenomics and I’m so wrong about this, blah, blah, blah. No one is listening anymore.
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This thread was started by @aatonnomicc commented a lot by @neo , @riddim and @Dimitar. This is by no means a thread run by people doing nothing else.
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Oh, well then by all means, please continue. I’m sure much fruitful and actionable discussions will result:
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