Political correctness, concerns, issues, dogma, censorship or crusades do not bring protection, progress or freedom unless they can be questioned, tested and challenged. Good luck with that in today’s world in which you will most certainly face social and other penalties, including physical assault or death, if you dare to question dominant narratives. Freedom carries responsibility and Safenet will give every individual responsibility for deciding what is “safe” for them and not have that decision imposed by someone with a policy and procedural manual. So I will not be using Safenet if it has ANY form of censorship built in.
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Your private data stored on SAFE will only be viewable and accessible by you. Any public data you choose to publish will be available to anyone who has its location (address) to access it.
If you have not tried out the demo launcher and app, I urge you to do so. It will show you how easy it is to add/remove your private data from the network.
Now if you are referring to having your private data published as public data by someone else that is a different matter.
That data will be accessible to all, which can absolutely suck for you, but it would also suck for oppressive governments, corrupt politicians, etc. that are also not able to scrub their dirty laundry off the network either…
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Kind of vague. I think we’re on different pages. Could you cite some use cases of the SAFE network, then we’ll have something substantial to discuss.
I think what @neo is trying to say is that police will have to do actual police work.
Say, for example, there is someone selling illegal drugs on a SAFE site.
The police will not just be able to harass the host of the site into giving them a name of the owner, they will actually have to do old school real world detective type things to locate this individual.
Law enforcement has been spoiled by network and service providers and website hosts doing a lot of their work for them, and when you have power and tools like that, it is hard to give them up…
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How can you be certain the good content will outweigh the bad? Especially early on? I think early on it’s very possible that scumbags could flood SAFE Network with the worst content. For all we know government informants and agent provocateurs could deliberately put harsh content on SAFE Network as a means of attacking Bitcoin or other similar technologies.
More rational and reasonable discussion should be had about the possibility of false flags and deliberately provocative content.
None of you know how the police will react and also police have informants, agent provocateurs, and are known to instigate false flags. Nothing stops the police from flooding SAFE Network with terrorist propaganda and child porn just so they can build a case globally to pass laws to ban encryption.
You are making the assumption that mainstream people think like you do and that the mainstream population cares more about privacy and encryption than their children, or that they trust some programmers on the Internet more than the cops.
The truth is most citizens trust law enforcement, trust intelligence agencies and others simply because of the badge or insignia of authority (priests, doctors, professors, police, politicians, and rich businessmen). They believe these “serious” people and these agencies are protecting them and they don’t know who the developers of SAFE Network are.
Bitcoin isn’t trusted either by the mainstream.
I sort of reached a similar conclusion that without curation the SAFE Network will not be valuable for me. We need a Google or Reddit or some kind of curation so that content we want to see is what we see and not content we don’t want to see. Basically relevant and useful content.
Unfortunately SAFE Network will probably release the Safecoin powered technology before putting in a curation layer and that could mean a period of dark ages before SAFE Network becomes useful to the majority of people. The problem is will that dark age era damage the perception of SAFE Network to the point where it never catches on with the mainstream?
I would suggest you hedge your bets by buying some Ethereum.
I don’t know what he’s trying to say, so I am seeking clarification.
One things for sure, taxes pay those animals. Freedom of association means no taxes, with obvious implications.
Here’s something else:
I suspect there’s a lot of people on the SAFE bandwagon who don’t realized how well off they are under the status quo, and who just imagine it will all be hippy-dippy happy happy FREEDOM! from all that ails them, that if only they can be FREE from the perceived yoke of all those bigots and racists out there who are HOLDING THEM BACK. Oh god, THEN they’ll be free at last!
Oh YES, their low status and poverty has NOTHING to do with low IQ, abysmal work habits, short attention span, substance abuse, chronic sponging off others, absurd dress and body modification solipsism, mediocrity-envier-cut-down-the-tall-poppy culture. NOOO… it’s the fascists and bigots holding them down!
I can hardly wait…
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All true points, but once SAFE launches, even if laws are passed, it will not be able to be taken down, it will be accessible to everyone.
It is a shame that people put trust in the same authorities who are capable of doing despicable things to a new technology just to discredit it… when it comes to security and privacy I trust computers over humans every time.
When it comes to protecting my family and loved ones, I trust myself first and the authorities (with what little comfort and security they can provide) second.
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It’s possible law enforcement can use these tools as well. Do not be shocked if SAFE Network is used in ways which developers and early supporters never intended and that is the point of my posts of caution. I’m with the philosophical aspects but I’m concerned that the implementation could backfire with particular concern about Pay the Producer.
I think Pay the Producer gets the incentives wrong even if the intentions are good by the developers. Also it’s a PR nightmare.
I totally understand how you feel and why you would trust yourself first. People like us are not mainstream thinkers. We have to recognize that in order to have mainstream success you have to tailor the UX to the mainstream, not to the choir of your church.
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I think this topic has taken a turn away from protocol to what apps should and will be doing. Does safe need a “curation layer”? Of course. We need a Google or reddit or something like that to show content we want. However, that’s the job of apps. Google and reddit are not tcp/ip nor even http. They’re built on top of that. Safe is somewhere between those two. Please keep that on mind while making your complaints about the system.
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@luckybit why do you think there needs to be curation built in? There can and will be curation without censorship by authority. SAFEpress was intended to provide such a feature - where the site owner can control what content appears on the site.
Others have argued for free for all sites and good luck to them, but I think most people will want to visit sites that are curated (like this one 
). But we can have that without curation being built into SAFEnetwork.
Curation isn’t built into the internet - though having vulnerable central points and vulnerable transport mechanisms, the internet allows for centralised monitoring and control. Avoiding that is one of the main goals of SAFEnetwork, so I don’t understand what it is you want. Maybe I’ve missed something, often happens 
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Yes we do, they have already had to change from the simple “get the logs” because the vile crims, the ones worse than drug dealers use encrypted networks now and tracing them has returned to the good old detective methods. Read some Interpol reports.
False either/or question and as such cannot be answered.
Just like Love you can love two things at once.
There is no more/less, if they are smart they will do the same with SAFE as with the current internet, they will supervise their children until the child is too old for such supervision. Children can find the worse of the worse now if they wanted to. Doubt it will be different on SAFE.
No point to this statement. Sounds like bad stuff, but you said nothing different to the world now. Crims are using encryption and dark networks now and nothing much will change with SAFE, except maybe they cannot destroy the evidence.
Actually it will help the police and the courts because now evidence is often destroyed before the police can seize the computers/disks, but with SAFE the evidence is retained and convictions will be easier. Less crims less bad stuff put online.
Ummm, just like google now there will be search engines for SAFE too that can nanny the network for you. Google is not built into the internet either. So why ask for it to be built into the SAFE network. Thats crazy. Just use the APPs that will surface very quickly that will curate for you.[quote=“luckybit, post:27, topic:8624”]
and that could mean a period of dark ages
[/quote]
Not quoting the whole paragraph, but this is FUD right out of the FUD handbook. The internet also had to be adopted too. So SAFE will be adopted too in stages, But I would not call it the dark ages, but more the infancy stage like the WEB went through.
But SAFE is a network/protocol layer and to attribute dark ages to SAFE is just nonsense, because all you are talking about is how people use it and of course Content/APPs will be slow to start, like a rocket or train or the WEB which ran on the internet.
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I will lay bets that once law enforcement understand what SAFE is and it comes on their radar that they will set up “honeypots” for the criminals. Easy enough to do, and collect as much info about the person using their “honeypot” APP.
So… the ARPAnet was around from the mid-50s before we saw the WEB emerge in the mid 90s. Right? Yeah. We’re building the roads - not the cars. And certainly not the billboards or interactive traffic maps that we now associate with those roads.
Well hopefully things will actually be quicker than that. We already have APP development progressing now.
The advantage is that it took a long time for some concepts to be thought of and be developed to the User Interface and features we see today. For example the x/ymodem of the 70’s to BBS of the 80’s to dropboxes & forums of the 90’s to forums we see today. All those advancements in ideas/innovation of design for the applications and user interface can be incorporated in the APPs for SAFE when they are written.
So the slowness is not that we revert to old style of doing things, but that the APPs will take a while to migrate over to SAFE.
SO the search engine, the nanny filters (curators), forums, shops, etc will not necessarily be there with MVP or the going live SAFE, but will progressively appear. Seems like the forums, exchanges, creative store, will be the first ones off the rank.
The main-frames were first hooked up in the late sixties and ARPAnet was 1969, and around 1972 there were 70 Main-frames on a modem hooked up network. The Mainframe I used didn’t get hooked up till later in the 70’s and network cable (massive diameter cable) added after that to include the mini computers scattered around the complex. About then the BBS systems started up because they could not join the “network” and was the only way people could participate in the coming revolution of inter-connectivity. Around that time I joined the Telco to develop/work on protocols and messaging systems, but their mainframe(s) were located in another state and our work was on unix.
You’re really trying to compare arpanet->internet to this? We already have more people working on this project than arpanet. We know where we’re going, we know what networks can do, we know who the players are. Its not a valid comparison.
This is like moving from AOL to real internet. Once people realized they could, the bandwagon got real full real fast. Actually, that may be one of the best analogies of what I think is coming.
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Ben1’s ideas are a complete joke.
You are free to publish anything in Saudi Arabia as long as you can find a local Saudi who wouldn’t mind to be hanged in case you misspell something.
(Of course if you were able to find just anyone to lend you their ID, the idea would be completely pointless as some guy from Nigeria would gladly lend you his (fake, probably) name to post what ever the hell you want.)
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