HOW does it know the balance??? The vault only has an ID to send coins to.
To know the balance you need to read the user’s account and sections cannot do that since its is encoded.
PoS is permission less, like bitcoin mining or node aging it means you need to spend some resources to participate in consensus, as opposed to getting someones permission.
Permissioned consensus is basically that someone adds your private key to a list of who can participate in consensus.
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PARSEC is a consensus mechanism that’s used in SAFE. Where in this topic did I ever propose to change the consensus algo in SAFE? It’s actually quite weird to claim I did or that the idea of Staking does. Also: my idea is not called Proof-Of-Stake. That’s really apples and pears. POS is used in blockchains and SAFE doesn’t has one. It is used in blockchain systems to allow someone to make a block. Again; where in this topic did I talked about using any form of Stake to create any block?? Nowhere, because that has nothing to do with this whole idea. The idea is just used for Staking coins the moment you want to Farm Safecoin. It has again nothing to do with any form of consensus.
And that needs to be done here because the PoS suggested HAS to know the coins. So the user has to give the section the keys to their coin ID and wallet list in order to allow that section to know they have coins in order to give them permission to be a NODE
So it does make it a permissioned consensus
It is a consequence of PoS - see just above
The request to give up some Safecoin before you can Farm changes the consensus system in SAFE??? My god… I don’t know where you got this idea Rob but it’s quite far off from what I proposed here. And please stop calling it Proof-Of-Stake. That’s something completely different used in blockchain systems.
You asked for consequences and I just explained why
Otherwise the section has no way to know cryptography that the person has the coins. The only way is to reveal to the section the keys so the section can verify the wallet and the list has the coins. And the section needs to keep checking so that you don’t move the coins to another wallet and startup a new node. Thus you need to register the keys with the section and that fits @ intrz’s definition of a permissioned system. And I won’t mention the security breach by giving your keys to other people who run the nodes since they can mod the node’s code to reveal them.
And the consequence of that is you now have PoS which is a permissioned system
Proving the stake is what its all about. You have to prove to the section your stake and allow the section to prove you keep them while being a node. So is that not proof of stake at its basis
Like I said, in SAFE the idea is to allow for public addresses/transactions as well.
Here it is 
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So you can become part of a group, you can show that group a “used once” public address and you can also say to that group: “This is my public address with 4 Safecoin in it”. And then that group could verify that and request you give up ownership. If you do within the next few seconds they reach consensus on the fact that you indeed burned some tokens. No need to change any consensus algo.
Lets do this one step at a time
Where is this list of coins?
No, sorry. This will keep going around in circles. All fine though, people should shoot etc. But claiming I proposed POS and changing the consensus system is so far off of what I proposed that this is not gonna work. You don’t like the idea of any Stake and that’s fine. I think we need need something like that at least until we reach several million Vaults. Let’s keep it that way 
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I think we should be careful with adding additional layers of complexity (the arch-nemesis of security), and so far the arguments that this increases the security of the network seem quite speculative. It’s good to discuss ideas such as this, but until there’s a strong argument (or better, a showcase in a testnet) that the network needs staking of coins to be secure I’m not in favour.
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That is why I wanted to do it one step at a time, because we at times are answering posts out of order. So that we don’t go in circles and we can sort out each step along the way and maybe find something that works. But fine, I’ll stop. Pretty said all that I am going to other than we MAX Nodes for protection.
Maybe stupid idea 
, but in the startup phase of the network you can also put each new potential node in ‘quarantine’ for a week or so. The node has to be available for 24/7, the network will check this. If it passes this ‘proof-of-dedication’ then it will become part of the network as real node.
Botnets and hijacked PC’s will probably not pass this test.
Of course you can/must only do this in the startup phase.
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That sort of is the idea right now (as it is). You join as a Vault, Elders want you to vote and take part in consensus but your votes and signs are not used as real votes. Only if you are redirected from one group to the other your age goes up a bit. And only after you reach a certain age you can become an elder. This might indeed take a few days, or even weeks…
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