I enjoyed that one! 
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Without users there is no network effect but I guess if suddenly all users would die because of a disease and there would be only one user left he could still access the information that had been stored in the past and the network itself would still existā¦
I donāt think it was an invalid question of @drirmbda was itā¦? Maybe Iām just being dumb but I donāt see a too large analogy to schrodingers cat - the coin that is dead and alive at the same time? That could be dead or alive but you will only see if you loginā¦?
(yeah sorry I know jokes are not funny anymore if one has to explain themā¦ Anywayā¦ )
Edit/ps: I donāt think we will drive mass adoption with making smart academic jokes and by ignoring questions that have been asked - brain storming only works if nobody judges any suggestions no matter what he thinks about it - as soon as one bully is in the room the whole thing doesnāt work anymoreā¦ This forum is like a large brain storming area and I think we should always approach each other with respect and tolerance - not with arroganceā¦ (yes I fail at times too - but I try my best)
In theory everything would stay the same and the user would be safe and secure since no data is meant to leave your computer unencrypted in the safe network 
(unless I misunderstood something)
Edit: the coin then ofc would be a bit pointless because it would just be a data structure that the user could sent from one account to another oneā¦
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ā¦and everyone got a glossy Safe Network Primer?
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Bitcoin does not really have a front end and has huge usability problems. But it is secure and it works. And is over 11k$.
I am surprised that I am not seeing MaidSafe responses to such an important and basic question such as a resounding yes or an explanation why the network would be vulnerable to attack without sufficient volune of gets and puts.
In my mind the project itself is still like Schrodingers cat; I trust and doubt it at the same time. Github commits and all the marketing are nothing (not literally but just to make the point here) compared to a proof that the design is sound. MAID is below 11k$.
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What question? ā¦
First off, there are fewer BTC than MAID, so comparing the unit price of each is flawed.
Regarding security, in SAFE network this will come from the ratio of good to malicious nodes. Up to 1/3 of the nodes being malicious can be tolerated by PARSEC. More specifically, in order to reach the point of being able to participate in consensus (ie become an elder), nodes must have a history of providing resources to the network and acting in accordance with the rules of the network. The more good nodes that are participating in the network, the more secure it becomes.
The point that I believe the folks from MaidSafe have been making is that in order to get a strong number of good nodes, there needs to be a strong incentive for them to participate. The incentive comes from farming rewards, which occur when data is retrieved from the network. So in order for there to be strong incentives in place to ensure a secure network, appealing content, apps, and UX that will attract users also need to be in place.
The network would be secure as a ghost town, but there world be fear of good nodes leaving, because operating a node would be a money losing proposition.
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Thank you for kindly explaining. It helps me with build a map of these dependencies. I want to build a picture of the security model.
Maybe it would be possible to keep everything in balance in these equations (and network secure) in the beginning by some temporary centralized but trusted external force.
Examples are MaidSafe hosting the network with hard-coded Elders, community hosting vaults at a loss, etc, etc. That would remove the need for strong incentives coming through network usage, and replace it temporarily by the will of this community to get this project to succeed.
Delaying the dependency on the need for fast mass adoption would buy us time and lower risk of failure at launch. I think building content will take a lot of time, and how much content would be enough?
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Oh and for the record - nice to see the different plans outlined this clearly!
I love the latest changes and the clear path to our common goal @dirvine @maidsafe
And I especially like the bls multisig progress since multisig enables so many things - itās not exactly needed for showing something works but enables a lot of good things and shows that we really are approaching the finish line (or start of the first basic network - depending from which angle you look at it)
Thank you very much for all your work and I canāt wait to see whatās next 
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I am trying to understand the security model of safe network and asked questions which would help me understand it.
Is this forum the right place to ask these questions?
Is there any documentation available that is suitable for e.g. security researchers at a university?
Ok, it was just kind of a pet peeve side note, but I can elaborate. He seemed to be saying that until the unit price of safecoin is greater or equal to that of Bitcoin ($11k currently), then Bitcoin is the king. So I think I was trying to make the same point that you are - that at similar levels of adoption or importance for each network, the unit price of Bitcoin would be expected to be higher due to higher scarcity.
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In simple terms, yes. Iād say in reality things are further complicated by MAIDās coin recycling and somewhat unknown supply schedule.
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I was trying to say (half joking with the 11k MAID, sorry) that nobody is really using BTC (besides adoption as a store of value perhaps or adoption as a token to gamble/speculate with) but it is a platform that is still around. The promise of the working platform is sufficient.
Wouldnāt MAID be valued higher just with a barebones safenetwork in place?
Absolutely
There is a load of documentation and also some peer reviewed papers etc. some are behind paywall (IEEE) but many available. Docs are never easy though, so you may need to search around, tehre are lots though.
A lot to that question
Vaults cannot decrypt data, they hold encrypted chunks of files, but not file. Clients encrypt stuff, but self_encrypt uses a version of convergent encryption with an added XOR phase. Network layer uses TLS 13., vaults use ED25519 and BLS as well as AES 256. We did have some chaha poly ā¦ but are sticking with AES (prob AES SIV for nonce resistance).
I am not sure this is the security you mean though, but you get the idea.
If it is how is it secured through use, then that is a much bigger question, like bitcoin it needs participants. Imagine bitcoin when the mining reward is gone and it is all transaction rewards. No transaciton, no miners. Like us no Puts, no farmers if that makes sense? No consumers, then no puts (even owners looking at their own data is a consumer). It kinda goes from there.
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Thanks man, that means a lot.
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Maybe so. Value is subjective after all.
I would love to have a list of peer reviewed papers. Or what journals to search and what search terms to use to find them?
I want to understand how the network is secured in the bigger sense. (Even before implementation and launch we could have people think of possible exploits and how to plug them. The more eye balls on it the better.)
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Search for āmaidsafeā or āmaidsafe irvineā on google scholar for a start point. There are many open pub searches now you can also use. Google patent search for the same will show all the original ideas etc. as well.
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Some digging turned up a series of papers of 2010 (not peer reviewed), and one peer-reviewed paper with an interesting title, but behind a paywall 
.
There was a similar request on this forum March 2018, and the result was the same. 
help!?
Edit: I will keep track of papers here.
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There are over 30 patents. Plus Sigmoid(x): secure distributed network storage - Strathprints and a few more, hope that helps. I donāt have a lot of time to search around as you will probably guess 
Even search this forum for papers, you will find some.
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I will do my best and search patents too but it looks like I will have to piece everything together from the code on github and search on this forum. 