SAFE Network Dev Update - January 30, 2020

[gouda123]

lets hope they finish the remaining tasks asap and surprise you with the releases we all are waiting for.

[Cryptoskeptic]

They can take as long as it takes. I’m loving the journey but tend to discount charts, timelines, plans … that sort of thing. After all, what do they mean apart from progress has been made. One day I hope to get an update saying SURPRISE

[Sascha]

@JimCollinson

we want the Network to be buoyant enough for a successful launch. For that, we also need to build a Minimum Viable Experience (MVE).

If I understand correctly, the minimum needed to lauch a permanent network is the ability to update how it works. Is there a specific name for such a version? The minimum needed to make the network trustworthy is making it impossible even for Maidsafe to shut it down. Is there a specific name for this version?

I may have misunderstood something quite fundamental. Is Maidsafe aiming for the next version of the network to be permanent? Does MVE/MVP, Fleming, Maxwell or “Launch” imply permanent? I think it would make a lot of sense to state explicitly that the network and the data on it will not be permanent for several iterations still, up until one day, after all the alphas, betas, Flemings, Maxwells and RCs, it is officially reset for One Last Time.

[dirvine]

@Sascha

Is there a specific name for such a version?

Maxwell …

[Sascha]

@dirvine

Maxwell …

Yes, the roadmap says:

“The release of SAFE Maxwell builds on top of Fleming and enables the network to upgrade, improves security and sets the ground work for switching test SAFE Coin to real SAFEcoin.”

But will Maxwell be permanent, or will it be taken down along with the data on it, and replaced with something else?

[dirvine]

@Sascha

But will Maxwell be permanent, or will it be taken down along with the data on it, and replaced with something else?

That totally depends on testing of Maxwell.
tl;dr we don’t know.

[Sascha]

Maxwell could be permanent because it’s updatable. Of course it doesn’t have to be. Am I right?

As I’ve said before, I think it would be great to have several test nets to try out and reset before the final permanent or perpetual one.

But what about a version of the network that will be such that Maidsafe cannot reset it? Isn’t this a pretty important final step? Or am I missing something? I’m just trying to understand the process of launch, or what “launch” really means in practice.

[dirvine]

@Sascha

But what about a version of the network that will be such that Maidsafe cannot reset it?

We need other groups coding new upgrades and the network to accept/reject those upgrades. Until then everyone will see maidsafe as the god commit and upgrade and that’s wrong.

tl;dr Until folk step us it is maidsafe all the way and they can be corrupted.

[Sascha]

@dirvine

We need other groups coding new upgrades and the network to accept/reject those upgrades.

Is there any sort of roadmap to the point when Maidsafe will relinquish control?

[dirvine]

@Sascha

Is there any sort of roadmap to the point when Maidsafe will relinquish control?

It’s not up to us, we need competitors for core coding. We will help them where we can.

[Sascha]

I realize others will take over in time. I feel a bit silly asking these questions. Maybe they are not even correct questions. I just don’t have a good enough understanding of how the network will work. But I don’t think I’m the only one.

[Nigel]

Being that the network will pay out rewards for core development and there has been an uptick in new competent outside coders (some that join Maidsafe) I think there is promise in there being some competition for Maidsafe. Even past Maidsafe devs may revisit to develop without having to work under any company or organization to earn rewards, since they would have a leg up knowing a decent amount of the code base.

Thanks @dirvine for clarifying a bit on the permanence of these launches.

[jeremyjpj0916]

At the end of the day MaidSafe knows what needs to be done to reach a finish line better than any of us. They work this grind day to day, and I am sure they want this network launched more than every single enthusiast/crypto speculator out there, for MaidSafe to get to see their blood sweat and tears delivering on something momentous will be such a satisfying moment for them all. They know their current budget(well rough guesses since a lot of it is in MAID too which fluctuates against FIAT), hopefully they have some idea of what needs to be done to iron out the edges and deliver the MVP/MVE and they can meet that in their budget with some time to spare for adoption or further funding through growth in token value due to delivering something new to the world.

[Cryptoskeptic]

Yep, if its meant to be it will be. I will be interested to know where it will be by the end of 2020. It’s only 11 months away

[Toivo]

@JimCollinson

So, if you feel like the goal-posts have been moved, please do chime in with your thoughts, and we can all plan the most effective route to launch together… that’s what we all want after all!

Sorry, I was too vague on my previous post. I’m aware of MVP and MVE requirements for launch, and I’m very much on board with those. You have been doing fantastic work with UX design amd I think it is crucial for succesful launch.

My confusion is about the role of Fleming. It used to be very stripped down intermediary step towards functional network. For example a year ago it was considered next “release”, even when it would have been basically unusable for anything, except for proving that the routing works. So what is the role and scope of Fleming?

I my imagination Fleming was supposed to be something that actually works, but is mostly a toy for people with quite good technical skills. And I think we need something along those lines soon, because it would (migh / could / should…) have a positive impact on MAID price. And MAID price is important for further funding of the project. Nobody knows when and if the World is going to decide that Bitcoin is actually worthless, and Maidsafe should have secured it’s funding before that.

In my opinion Fleming should be a clear step before launch (or whatever is the next phase), but now it seems it is only 1/10th of a step from Fleming to next phase - if you get what I mean.

[gouda123]

I believe many of you might not be aware (even thought David mentioned this) that the working schedule have changed and is now Monday-Thursday, Friday is off, and that is not ideal in terms of speed, but probably this extra day gives David time to plan the next week for the team etc.

[neo]

@gouda123

I believe many of you might not be aware (even thought David mentioned this) that the working schedule have changed and is now Monday-Thursday, Friday is off

If you are making such claims then backing them up is needed.

[gouda123]

Here you go , I hope I will not create some storm here now…

@dirvine

That route may not be obvious (close offices, set up a loan scheme, 4 day week, flatter structure etc.) and may not work, so we go another route (cast the line a little bit more down river etc.)

[neo]

@gouda123

Here you go , I hope I will not create some storm here now…

If you quoted the context then it paints a different story. So by taking a statement out of context you are causing FUD. If you had real information then it would not be FUD. But this is what management considers. It has not done ALL those things. Please stick to actual facts

@dirvine

It’s like fishing and with every cast that does not catch a fish being seen as bad management of the fisherman, regardless how many fish he catches. To me any project is like that, any job is like that, otherwise it’s a very repetitive simple job that a robot should be doing.

Introspection and criticism work well when founded. Public forums make that difficult, but it is important. The key, to me, is read between the lines, get a general feeling of consensus on many things, but then (and this is the hard part), figure out a route. That route may not be obvious (close offices, set up a loan scheme, 4 day week, flatter structure etc.) and may not work, so we go another route (cast the line a little bit more down river etc.)

And my quote does not give full context, people can go to the post and see what was being replied to

[dirvine]

It’s not the case, we all (well except me of course) are on slack (in work) 4 days per week. This allows folk to take a thinking day whenever they wish. It’s a 3 month trail to see if output increases. So far it seems the team really make good use of it, but many on their “day off” are actually still in slack.

However we need to take it in perspective. There is not a single day when some of us are not still working and that is 7 days a week. Even the holidays there, Xmas day/new years day etc. we had people working on them all. I have not been offline for a day since all the changes of last year.

It’s interesting to see the team dynamic and who uses the time effectively and who just work an exact X hours and no more. We don’t have much of the latter, instead we seem to have a very engaged team.

I like it as we give folk time to think deeply and see that happen, but we also give folk the ability to show commitment, or not and we also see that