October, australia government is going record all meta data

It is said by next month all meta data will be recorded in australia.

Unless the ISP has submitted an implementation plan and had it approved then they get up to another 12 or 18 months.

I’ve already got a VPN in use

It is shocking what they have done in the name of terrorism. They also want to take control of the internet infrastructure with legislation to force ISPs to reveal their infrastructure and take directions from the government to future changes to infrastructure or be fined/jailed

In Australia we are more likely to be killed by a lion in Australia than by terrorism (real terrorism that is not some disturb gunman) — EDIT: Australia only has lions in zoos.

In the 80’s we did have some real terrorism scares and its so much safer today then it was back then.

More people have died from falling off their bed in Australia than have died to disturbed gunmen or any thing terror related (on AU soil)


Australia has become a joke.
In terms of freedoms, on my own scale I put it somewhere alongside Malaysia which was never very free to begin with.

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We disagree about some fundamental issues but you are absolutely correct on this topic . . I am ashamed to be an Australian at the moment . .



What a megalomaniac.

Every blue suit gang wants their own NSA, so that’s not surprising. I’m more surprised that Australia had the money for something like this myself. Is this just Australia having it’s own printing press to?

@vince ,

Who do you mean?


We the customers will be paying for most of it. The government claims they will contribute some figure ~100 million (small %age of the total) but has yet to to detail the spending.

Yet the law is on the ISPs to do the work and the customers can only disconnect from the net to protest. At this time we don’t have access to offshore connections to the net. Maybe when the low orbit satellite system is launched and working we can escape direct data retention and just worry about the NSA vacuum.


If the cost of implementing this for the ISP’s is high, then I think this law could be a form of corporatism/fascism (wherein the big ISP’s pushed and paid for this law) - the effect being that small ISP’s will be forced out of business as big ISP’s will be able to keep their prices low for a long period of time - thus squeezing out the little ISP’s.

IMO this sort of thing happens all the time as fascism (corporatism) has prevailed as the global economic system.

“fascism is more appropriately called corporatism, for it is a perfect merger of State and corporate power.” – Benito Mussolini

don’t have access to offshore connections to the net

“don’t have access to SAFE connections to the net” yet.

Fixed that for you. :wink:

Yes SAFE will leave them a mixed bag of data to sift through. Many many IP addresses showing up in the connections I’ve made, but pretty much meaningless with no protocol data, was it email or was it NNTP or what, it will be noise. This excuse for a government just do not understand the internet, they still think its a combination of Letters through the mail and telephone shoved through the pipes of the internets.

Whether its paid for by the government or more directly via higher ISP access charges, its still being paid for by the customers. I guess unless the customer isn’t a taxpayer - dole bludgers I guess?


Very true. That issue has been explored to death in Australian forums :smile:

It really should be a reduction in the budgets of the departments wishing access, since supposedly it will reduce their expenditure to apprehend those crooks. And yea, pigs will fly too.

Australia is very quickly turning into those surveillance things we hated about the USSR

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Isn’t Australia already pretty embedded and involved in the surveillance of the innocent thing as part of the Five Eyes? Isn’t it that basically any data that any of them can get their hands on legally or otherwise is shared amongst them, such as from taps on fiber lines.

Maybe they’re doing the thing where after breaking existing laws for a good run of decades, they have to publicly announce and start a “controversial new program,” for the war of terror or whatever urgent and completely causeless crisis one is supposed to be worked into a hysteria about that day? I welcome the new thousands (or more hopefully) that this will hand a little clue to about what government is and does, and maybe they’ll come join the forum here. :smile: One can hope.

I agree with respect to lawmakers and regulators, but I don’t think this comes from visible government. For example, when the NSA scrapped the generally privacy protecting and cheap Thin Thread program that William (Bill) Binney helped create, for a much more expensive, less useful program that did no filtering and just captured all data for later retrieval, that’s not incompetence at work. He describes how it was the bigger price tag, which would go to a well connected firm, as well as all the power and potential (ab)uses of that program that made the decision to sacrifice attack detection for profit and control. He states that the analysts couldn’t really find much out in such a mountain of data, so that also caused the NSA to expand its staff significantly, another “benefit” for the people running it.

In my opinion, at a certain high enough level, it’s not about terrorism or country or safety, they know it, and they are rather clever, since they essentially are Wall St. crooks that have embedded themselves in a cloak of patriotism. Looking at the politicians and bureaucrats in general as running the security establishment is, I think, missing a large component of the financial, corporate, think-tank and intelligence nexus that has been central since the start of at least the US intelligence community, but I’m not sure about Australia specifically. [Bill Binney’s 3-hour interview is here if you’re interested: http://www.tragedyandhope.com/interview-with-william-binney/]

One more question, is it more likely practically useful for societal domination or stopping terrorism to eavesdrop on all of the economic, social, and political activity of an entire society? I believe all that information is feeding into these fascist corporations that are trying to monopolize as much of the world as possible with the assistance of various states of the world. They want to know more what makes us tick, they want to know when an entrepreneurial, social or political movement is rising, or when it’s about to rise. I think that is a more logical goal for what we are seeing. That’s why they think everyone should be feeding their life into social media–for analysis. Apparently some companies are now refusing to hire people in the US who don’t have a social media profile, like myself. The whole big data trend is in line with these goals much more than practical business reasons, too, it seems. That’s my rant for the day I guess; my apologies if that was too tangential.

But they were blind to the data the ISPs can get hold of.

The allocated IP addresses to which customer.
Name/Address of the customer
And plenty of other data that never reaches their collection points.
5 eyes was mainly for ASIO and they don’t share their data like good kids do.

Interestingly ASIO was granted extra powers recently and that included things that people suspected they were doing anyhow. One of the powers granted was the ability to break the law however they wished with only (4 or 5) exceptions, like RAPE, or completely ruining someones financial situation.

As far as data retention goes only the warrantless access is restricted. The courts also have the ability to access the retained data as they always had, just now its retained for 2 years not days for some of the data.

I suspect that we will see divorce cases access this data as part of discovery, media companies asking for this data.

When the data is accessed by LEAs there is no requirement for them to delete it, ever. There is no limit to the amount of times they can access data or how much. And it is a crime to reveal that LEAs accessed the data.

I’m sorry I feel I brought too many assumptions into this, when I should have been listening.

It’s very interesting that they are actually passing laws saying they can break laws… brilliant. Why haven’t they thought of that over in the US! Next they’ll redefine murder and rape to be when a non-statist lackey ends someone life or violates their bodily integrity, otherwise its just called good old freedom fun. Kind of like the heroin trade, it’s great for western intelligence, but it’s oh so evil for the little people. Kind of like Gladio operations in Europe, NATO terror for a good cause. I don’t know what has to happen for people to stop worshiping the alter of state, thinking it can transform evil into good somehow, or that the people in it are not morally responsible for their actions. Hopefully before it destroys their future or takes their life. Anyway, thanks for the info.


This point was such a giddy idea it finally tipped me off lurk mode to subscribe:

It’s very interesting that they are actually passing laws saying they can break laws… brilliant. Why haven’t they thought of that over in the US

That is exactly what is happening with Police who can do anything “in the line of duty”
The trouble is that the police have spun completely out of control with their
giddy ideas of what they can get away with. Football hooligans wearing badge+uniform.
The U.S. is descending into a police state, which is why so many people are now getting shot.

Back on topic:
I would hope to see ways of compartmentalizing servers away from their host OS information flows.
To prevent the host system from betraying the SAFE operations
via metadata being sent for other presumed benign services.
Why ?
I just deleted the rest of this thought when I realized I did not wish to elaborate on how-to.

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