I think this is what you’re missing; the payment required to store records will go up by a much bigger factor than 1000 as the network fills up.
There’s a pricing curve that starts low & goes up exponentially as nodes fill.
Unfortunately ‘soon’ may be quite a while (My ill-informed guess is months not weeks), as 1) it depends on uploads working well (hopefully not too long), 2) due to emissions there is an over-supply of nodes, which will suppress the ANT cost of uploading vs if there were fewer nodes to fill, and 3) ETH fees create a floor price for the cost of uploading data to the network, which may be a multiple of any equilibrium ANT upload cost, meaning it will never be ‘cheap’ to fill the relatively empty network in the early days as the pricing curve had intended it to be.
Also, as the network grows in scale over time, emissions will be split between ever more nodes, but growing demand for uploads should see node earnings from uploads remain relatively steady.
Ah. That will make a big difference then. I still think it would take a large increase in the upload cost to make Rewards for storing new records the larger incentive than Emissions for running nodes.
Yes, I agree with all that. I think it will take a long time for anything to change.
Maybe not right now but storage space will be a big factor when uploads start and we find that a large proportion of nodes simply don’t have enough space. At the moment a node would require much less than 1GB. When uploads increase a lot of nodes are going to pop which will cause others to get full. We all know what this looks like from last year.
The best we can hope is that some have provisioned their nodes with 0.5GB real storage, some with 1GB, some with 2GB, etc. so that the cascading failure is somewhat staggered.
And network bandwidth usage increasing will be factor as well.
I personally am not obsessed by the money aspects or feeling hurt. I just couldn’t see how ANT earned by storing records could ever approach what is earned by running nodes.
That’s been partly addressed by @DavidMc0 pointing out that Rewards will scale exponentially as the network fills.
I’m worried that emissions just incentivise there being lots of fragile nodes and the thing that should be more important - storing data and making it available - is not incentivised enough.
I need to spreadsheet all this. Clearly some people have already but from the point of view of maximising return and not caring about the health of the network by running paper thin nodes.
I think the under-provisioning of nodes in terms of storage and network bandwidth will provide a downward pressure on the number of nodes as uploads and downloads increase and they become uneconomic.
And this is why delivering the native token is so vital.
This network is here to reward node-runners not ETH miners. Every day we go without native token, more and more of the resources of the Autonomi network are syphoned off into another ecosystem.
I am NOT saying the ERC-20 token is a BadThing, I recognise why it was and is needed. Its like me carrying a set of heavy jump leads about in the car, necessary to get started smetimes but dead weight and a drain on mpg 99.9% of the time.
Especially my jump leads, 10m long and made of 50mmsq copper welding cable. These are homemade and would likely cost me £3-400 if I hadnt stolen the cable several decades ago
I’m sure you will. But not everyone has the foresight and dedication you exhibit!
I’ll say again that it could well be a problem. If half of the current 50 million nodes are on machines with 1,000 nodes on them and there is only a 1TB drive attached for the record store that’s only 1GB each. There will be mass node shutdowns - either scheduled or crashes. Much churn at best and possibly a cascading crash. And if the machine has just a 1Gb/s connection they could be overloaded and swamped before that as well when activity picks up. There would be much shunning.
The best we can hope for is any variability in storage allocation, network bandwidth for servers and numbers of nodes on servers is such that the shutdowns are somewhat staggered. But it will not be pretty and could be disasterous.
I’m always grateful that I can learn from you about the perspective on viewing complex natural system. Is there any place where I can see the ant complex systems theory you presented? Thank you, as always. I’m incredibly fascinated and curious about how error‑tolerant natural(maybe looks chaotic) systems operate and how you analyzed them.
Although I don’t have a way to contribute to creating algorithms that produce a sustainable network structure — like in an ant colony, where each ant’s behavior is simple but the collective yields a resilient system — I will always support the work team do.
I’m very pleased to see that the entire team appears to be so focused on a single goal.
I got 3 servers: 80TB ssd one server 1, 60TB on HDD SAS on the other and 8 TB nvme on the third which is more of a testing device.
I like transparacy so I’m going to be completely honest with you here: 550.000 in the cloud, 0 from home. I’m trying to resolve the issues I’m having with my home nodes but I cannot get any further without either community help or a team member looking at it.
