I fail to see an issue with erc20 in either options. Eventually the proxy token will be void and Safecoin will be the only token traded relating to it, unless we get Safecoin wrappers like mentioned earlier. But that’s not something that can be stopped or should be IMO.
I think, could be wrong, neo is referring to safecoin proper after launch.
I think what he was saying was that if erc safecoin is out there, already on erc exchanges, it becomes established as the norm.
So people might not be to bothered about offering real safecoin on erc exchanges and / or not bother with building exchanges on the actual safenetwork so quickly.
But i could be wrong.
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Human nature. Use the tried path and keep using it.
Waiting for legal case if you do that
I am talking of post MAID, nothing to do with MAID and the safecoin market. (buying safecoin. I think it came about from lifting my post out of the context of post MAID
Rob do you think we can legally stop a third party from releasing ERC20 Safecoin? You know there are 5-6-7 ERC20 tokens for wrapped Bitcoin, right?
No
And if it is just them doing that then there should not be an issue other than potential fraud
BUT if the ONLY set way initially is to use a more complex method of official ERC20.SafeCoin then that is different and the only thing I am talking of
What do you think will be the effect of the ERC20 safecoin on farmers? Will it increase the number of those wishing to be farmers or will it decrease them?
Compared to native safecoin.
- First period when adoption is low. NOTHING, most already have safecoin and are willing to help out any new person
- Second period as numbers grow. Marginal,
- the first period setup a method for new people to buy coins off others directly
- During the first period exchanges will setup for whichever official method is announced
- if native then the simple one page buy safecoin will be adopted
- if erc20.safecoin then the more complex method of double handling will be set up where the user buys the proxy, then trades for safecoin.
- third and ongoing - Just makes it harder for real farmers than native.
- native the simple one step method will be made better and more wide spread
- erc20.safecoin the 2 set method will be strengthened and cemented as the preferred way to get safecoin
Oh and I think the erc20,safecoin market will drain value out of safecoin for very early adoption due to complexity for new people to get coin to use the network and the cost them more since traders are trading between the 2 coins and sucking money out of the coin
Those with coin may get more for safecoin, but at what cost, lower adoption and really this spells lower income for those farming due to lower adoption
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So do you think people will use the ERC20 token to buy and use real safecoin? What percentage do you think will use ERC20 just for profit and speculation?
I personally plan to use almost 100% of my Safecoin to buy resources on the network. I wonder if the other participants will do the same or they have bought MAID to sell it for money…
If its the official way then yes. And the one new people would have confidence in.
Traders will be trading 100 times the purchase by new people.
Traders will trade the price changes between the erc20 and native safecoin. This will suck out value for the people farming or buying. This trading can cause the price to artificially rise AND drop depending on the traders. IE price manipulation is easier with trading between 2 coins than just having one native coin.
Official ERC20.SafeCoin may or may not cause a good increase in price over than just native, but it can go both ways. As the official way to get safecoin then it will cement itself because exchanges won’t want to implement two systems (or change) if they don’t have to. So it will remain the way and the manipulation by whales will remain which allows for other projects to control SAFE from the very start, just like we see with OMNI.MAID
I do not understand what is a official way of buying in a decentralized system. Can you explain how we can impose an official way of buying?
Simple - the stated way by MaidSafe or other official postings stating that. What has been prompted in the proper topic for this subject
Currently, the company has listed all possible ways to buy MAID on the official website. If I understand you correctly, in the future it will be best for us to announce only selected ways to buy. Who will decide, what are the official ways to buy?
It sounds like you are trying to downplay the issues by this line of reasoning.
Official is the way that is presented to the new users as the way.
eg a new user asks and the response is the way that has been implemented to do it.
Now if erc20.safecoin is endorsed by MaidSafe then by default it must be the preferred method. The reason is - people are smart and take that a more complex method must be preferred if it is endorsed by MaidSafe and others. The only way is if they specifically say it is not.
And the additional reason is that those who trade and exchanges are knowledgeable in ERC20 and will prefer that over native because they know erc20 (even if native is easier). These people don’t care about new people trying to get safecoin
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This is exactly what I am trying to prove. There can be no official way to buy in a decentralized system. If it can, then it is not decentralized.
It is very likely to have an ERC20 safecoin.
That is why it is good to prepare for it and include it in our plans. Because we care about the network. But traders will not care, they only care about profit.
And since we can’t stop them from making the ERC20 safecoin and putting it on the market, let’s discuss what we can do to use the effect of their actions to our advantage 
WRONG. For the dex itself wrong too since erc20 is for the dex and implemented long before native will be. But as soon as the guides tell people a certain way to get their coins for using on the network then you have an official method.
If there is a erc20.safecoin done by someone for traders then fine, but if MaidSafe or SAFE “experts” tell new people to use erc20.safecoin then that is the one that will be dubbed “official”
I am not against there being a erc20.safecoin, but if it is promoted as the way to do things then you may learn what it is to not get what you wished for and not even know it.
For MaidSafe and the major players to implement native from the start will reap large benefits long term over any erc20.safecoin running along side native. For instance safecoin becoming a way to pay for real items and bills in the future. If you go erc20 then you have to trade first then pay for items
Cannot get away from that.
DO not let erc20.safecoin be first mover or else it will become the only mover in the market place.
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Let’s get out of theory and talk about specific things. I am from USA. I am officially sent to Bittrex, where I cannot buy. What choice do I have besides using the ERC20 safecoin?
Well since safecoin does not yet exist then none
When it does then multiple methods will crop up. Also USA is only 350 million out of 7 billion people so to design things purely for them has to also benefit the rest of the 2 billion internet users.
For instance people can buy BTC in the USA and since safecoin is a network purchasing token then the iffy legalities disappear. Not so for ERC20.safecoin which would be a pure trading product.
So exchanges can then open up to USA people.
But also things like localSAFEcoin will be created for people to buy safecoin directly off farmers, people, etc.
Once the network is running then opportunities open up for on-network methods to get coin become available and not illegal in countries because its like buying in game purchases
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Let’s talk about another large part of humanity. China. They don’t speak much English there, but they use Ethereum a lot. Can we do something for them? If I am a third party I will release ERC20 safecoin in a country that cannot read the official buying guides…
You are approaching this with a closed mind. What I said applies to China too. Chinese exchanges will be able to provide methods to buy safecoin native even if they cannot trade it. It’d be like selling giftcards since one safecoin is like a giftcard to buy resources on the SAFEnetwork.
And localSAFEcoins will be fine since again its like selling a token for resources.
EDIT: Again I will say that I am not against an unofficial ERC20.safecoin being used by traders for trading or selling farming rewards. Just we need the native to have the development resources put in to make it the best value coin out there which is has the potential to be
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Centralized exchanges are currently subject to strong competition from decentralized exchanges. It is only a matter of time before Etherium introduces super cheap transactions and a large part of trading is outsourced to decentralized exchanges. This is already happening, we have an exponential increase in trade in decentralized exchanges in recent months.
