If it ever comes to that I will 100%, this will happen for sure. The team is generally great and focused, don’t worry SAFE will appear soon It is our duty and we will do that.
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Ahaha… 
your getting ahead of the others here. This is what I was thinking.
In practice, all we need is for MaidSafe to ensure that whatever token we construct will be exchanged for Safecoin just as MaidSafeCoin.
Then we find an address of MaidSafe and send the collected funds to them.
Optimally though, it would be a bit more collaborative than that 
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This is a problem, no question about it. But I rather take one thing at a time.
OK let me make this promise, we get vaults phase 3 out, routing with no sections yet (node age missing) and if the last small bit is missing and we are running out of cash. Then I will post an address, but only then have we de-risked the project enough This community is the the last place we should seek funds, but the the first place we will ask to help us. The last part should be obvious by then and only need time.
tl;dr This is 100% happening, we may need help and if we do then we will ask openly and clearly, not for us, but for the vision, the reason we do this.
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First things first. Once Fleming has been reached, let us know an address and the community should be able to raise 4000 pounds for a knees up in Scotland and India. Although I don’t think you need 100 pounds per head for a decent knees up in India
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To address the immediate proposal for dilution of maidsafecoin, I think that’s not going to work for a few reasons.
Firstly issuing extra coins doesn’t create any extra value. The strategy of extracting value by issuing more coins relies on the friction of timing between issuing and selling on the market. Since maidsafe issues the coins they get the best side of that friction. It makes some sense for fundraising but makes no sense for getting the network up and running, since that depends on much more than just funds to build the product.
Secondly the existing problem is there’s not enough buyers (hence low price) so creating supply addresses the wrong side of the equation. Demand is what is needed.
Thirdly markets don’t usually respond linearly to supply. Double supply doesn’t usually mean half price, especially in markets with thin order books and low demand which is exactly what is seen with maidsafecoin due to the already low demand.
Fourth, it damages confidence. Price is a confidence game. Issue now and the promise is damaged, confidence shrinks, price suffers, a cycle continues. It hurts the economic side and the social side.
So I am very strongly against dilution of maidsafecoin, even though I can accept short term pain for long term gain. Dilution is almost certainly not going to achieve the desired result.
Another thing I’d like addressed is the actual conditions that cause this action to become necessary. Right now I can’t see evidence requiring action, although can accept it may be necessary in the future. I would be very interested in a list of evidence indicating action is required now (or soon). The evidence of positive progress seems quite strong to me, and the evidence of maidsafe needing immediate financial support seems quite low. Maybe I’m just unaware?
Also I would ask how much response is needed or desired? I would be keen to see numbers to that. Maybe action will happen organically if there’s a genuine model of cost and benefit presented. But this can’t happen until a) the situation is clear and b) a specific model of action is laid out.
For example, would buying 20 BTC on poloniex to push the price up 50% to 0.00003 be adequate action? Would putting an additional 20 BTC on the orderbook at 0.00003 to hold that price be enough? Why or why not? Is double price enough? Just how much action is needed?
And to the actual purpose of my post now: how can more value be added to maidsafe and the safe network? I feel that issuing more coins does the opposite of add value, so let’s think about what would. I don’t have ideas for how to add value to the network since right now there seems to be enormous amounts of value being generated so it’s hard to add much more on top of that. It’s unclear to me why that isn’t reflected in the price of maidsafecoin, but seems like information asymmetry is at play.
Yeah, I can deny that! What’s the evidence for this? My guesses (and responses) are:
- people leaving the team? Turnover is quite normal.
- slow product development? Check github etc it’s not slow.
- deadlines missed? Happy to see a link to this but none that I know of.
- competitors eating our lunch? Nope, nobody is close, storj, ipfs, nobody. Happy to see links showing otherwise.
- impossible features? Not that I’m aware of. Difficulties maybe but nothing impossible.
- financial problems? Doesn’t seem to be, would be open to evidence showing otherwise.
- low demand for maidsafecoin? Sure, price is low. I’m interested in increasing demand but I think it’s wrong to assume increasing supply will achieve that.
- existential risk to the vision? I don’t see that but am open to evidence.
- poor management and leadership? Maybe (although I doubt it); if there is what’s the proposed fix?
Sorry but I don’t see what is causing times to be tough and the impassioned call to arms is a little difficult for me to understand. Hopefully further discussion can help me better understand what might be done and why. I don’t want to be naive so truly I am open to having a better understanding of why this help is suddenly being pushed so strongly.
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Lets look at some evidence.
- Viv resigns but stays on for an extended period using up more funds
- Nick stays on for a very extended period using up even more valuable funds
- Pierre stays on for extended period using up more funds
- at the event (yesterday?) Maidsafe supply Beer (& pizza?) using up more funds
So I’d say there is a lot of valuable funds being used up in a time of funding crises
/sarcasm
These are not actions of a company in desperate need of funding unless the company is being run by lunatics
Thankyou @mav for expressing what I was trying to say using too few words and a lot more too.
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They are almost certainly staying for extended periods because that is simply their notice period. Why cut them loose if they are able to still contribute to the project. Whilst the proposal to dilute is drastic and I don’t necessarily agree with it, I can comprehend the underlying reasoning behind the argumenr- call that natural realism/pessimism. Maidsafe do not have unlimited funds, that was made clear when nick indicated there was a runway of 24 months a while back. I don’t think it is a coincidence that there is such a focused drive to provide a clear roadmap and deliverables as the runway reduces. The recent updates have all been hugely positive, I am not taking anything away from the team, but let’s not pretend that there are unlimited funds and everything is assured.
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One month is the max separation period. So no it is an extended period.
Now if fianncial problems then they can immediately cut them off with their 2 weeks or 1 month in lue period.
I did make a mistake with Pierre, his is not an extended period
But remember that we were told that these decisions were made quite a while ago, so it could still be an extended period
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Not sure why you think 1 month is max. It’s whatever has been agreed and certainly more senior members will have longer notice periods which is likely why nick is staying long. It makes sense to retain three of the more senior members as long as possible. If they cut them loose what will they use the preserved funds for. Id rather have my three more senior members provide as much value for as long as possible, aswell as to ensure a smooth transition. I don’t think money will run out tomorrow, but 6 months from now who knows the exact situation.
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They resigned so there is actually no mandatory period at all they could leave the next day if they or the company wanted them to. This shows the company is not so short of funds that they needed to get rid of them quickly. They have sufficient funds to keep tehm on for that persiod that they are
It is redundancies or sackings that there is a mandatory period they have to either retain them or pay them redundancy & pay in lue
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I don’t agree with this. Any notice period whether it is two weeks or 2 months is to protect the employee. Employees should not simply be able to walk out without any notice, just as an employee cannot make people redundant without any notice. Anyway we are debating a technicality. Don’t want to hijack this thread from the main topic of
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For sackings, these were not sackings so irrelevant here
as I said
Correct but irrelevant here
Actually we are agreeing. Just that they resigned so the company had no obligation to keep them on apart from paying leave etc entitlements
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Sorry bro, if you have to resort to manipulation of this sort, whatever you push is not a good cause and you’re not gonna make it with anyone.
I’m definitely not gonna make an unqualified assumption about reasons behind certain events, another assumption about the best possible solution for the assumed problem, and then force it onto others. I realize this is gonna cause more harm than good.
I wasn’t being cynical. I simply challenged your credibility to claim certain things.
When funding runs out. But it has not. I’m not muddling anything. I just counter your assumptions. Yeah, money is an issue, bot not THE issue. And that’s what I operate with until someone competent tells me otherwise.
If it’s ‘free will’, why force it through labeling the people who disagree with you as ‘unwilling to help’ or claiming they have ‘issue with doing something good’.
I mean, what the hell is this?
And you’re surprised to catch some flack for this?
No mistakes? No mistakes so far in this thread on your part, huh?
EDIT: It’s worth pointing out that @oetyng, further down the thread, later edited his flagged post without tagging me in. Classy move mate 
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With all the ups and downs I feel following this project I sometimes wonder if there is a wee bit of ole Steve Jobs in yah too . But hey if your dev team is on the same page with your confidence right now then rock on my man. Better to be overly positive than overly negative in any case though.
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I think measured progress and a definite plan is key here. Most of the team seem to be on the same page. I think we still have a few tweaks en route that also speed things up. We will see though, it has been a tough few weeks for me recently It is likely to remain tough till launch, but that is the reality part. Right now the reorganisation of the route to launch is kicking in. As we develop the management lines and let the staff find their place (many are really putting their heads up now) then it will be less tough personally for me. It is starting to be fun again mind you, more than I thought several weeks back.
I recon unleashing the whole team like this and having everyone on track to launch gives folk an inner energy and that is brilliant. Of course it is not easy altering a course of action like this. It has a cost, but the cost is always worth it, if we acheive our goals. We seem to be doing that right now, then that makes everyone feel that bit more comfortable. It is great in maidsafe right now, you can see folk fighting for dependencies to be delivered to let them get on with their bit and so on. That is what we want, a strong desire to deliver and when needed you can see folk jumping into tasks to help out. All of that is how a startup should run. Lean fast and focused.
As this beds in over the next few weeks, funding etc. all becomes a much simpler proposition.
I wish I did have a reality distortion field at times mind you 
instead I have my dogs, sheep and chickens 
They keep it real.
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Perhaps this should be a good point to put this thread to bed for now? I am sure contributions are all meant in a positive way, but there is a danger of talking the situation into a crisis, which is not yet warranted.
I am quite certain that there are a number of avenues for funding, many of which will get easier as visible progress is made.
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I don’t think anyone in this topic has been doing that. I have certainly not.
I ask for people to voluntarily engage before that.
Over and over I said that why should we need to wait for a crisis to do it?
Additionally I’m saying that it would be helpful to not assume that additional ways of funding will come easily.
We have a move to make that is much easier for us.
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I’m sure you have heard of the saying, ‘there is no smoke without fire’. This thread is creating a lot of smoke.
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